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Change blindness gathering thread

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Michael Chandra

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« Reply #105 on: <10-02-19/0310:41> »
While my opinion on racial qualities is clear, the amount of disagreement against it (even using balance statements while ignoring the unbalance of trolls otherwise) make it hard for me to present it here as a likely-fact. Wouldn't be a fair debate way.
Actually, strike that!

Quote from: Attributes section, p63
The Metatype Attributes table
provides the ranges of the attributes for each metatype
and the particular qualities certain metatypes
gain as a free bonus.
So the racial qualities are in fact a bonus! Making it an easily missed rule (due to its poor location) instead of change blindness.
How am I not part of the forum?? O_O I am both active and angry!

Quicksilver

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« Reply #106 on: <10-04-19/0524:43> »
How Pain Editor activates? Manually, or it is "on" all time? Minor action or Major action?

Michael Chandra

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« Reply #107 on: <10-04-19/0526:11> »
Technically not change blindness since previous editions didn't specify either. 8)
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DigitalZombie

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« Reply #108 on: <10-05-19/0723:49> »
Regarding IC.

It seems like ICs Matrix condition monitor is now host rating *2 and not host rating /2 +8:as it used to be.

I cant Seem to find anything about a host bring able to reload a defeated IC.
Furthermore, it seems like by RAW that hackers with admin Access to a host can use crash program on IC, which cant be brought back online again, unless the whole host is rebooted.

This is either some change blindness from the writers side, or a large change in how Matrix now Works.
« Last Edit: <10-05-19/1416:28> by DigitalZombie »

CigarSmoker

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« Reply #109 on: <10-05-19/1340:10> »
I cant Seem to find anything about a host bring able to reload a defeated IC.

I just read that as he can only have 1 of each type, so when you destroy the IC he can restart it next turn. That means once a Host sees you as hostile target he will eventually overwhelm you or at least you have to destroy 1 IC per turn. [And that would eventually raise your Overwatch to 40 so you should jack out rather than leaving the Host via Matrix.]

Furthermore, it seems like by RAW that hackers with admin Access to a host can ude crash program om IC, which cant be brought back online again, unless the whole host is rebooted.

I dont think that works because the Host itself neither has a condition monitor nor can the Host be a target (i think). So you cant crash IC programs because Hosts are no valid targets for the "Crash Program" Action. I dont think a Host needs to be rebooted either.

IF you could target a Host you could linklock him using linklock program, then crash all the IC using Crash Program.

But i think its intended that Hosts dont spot the Runner Hackers if everything goes as planned. Once spotted need to jack out (or fight the IC a few rounds to keep a door open for example)

Xenon

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« Reply #110 on: <10-05-19/1343:09> »
I'm missing the perception threshold table as mentioned in the perception skill.
Its was already included in the SR6 Aug hotfix errata.


Furthermore, it seems like by RAW that hackers with admin Access to a host can ude crash program om IC, which cant be brought back online again, unless the whole host is rebooted.

I dont think that works...
...
But i think its intended that...
I am pretty sure DigitalZombie know how it is supposed to work and how it was was phrased in earlier editions.
He probably raised this issue because by reading the things that are actually printed in the book it is not clear at all.

But if you actually found a rule that make it clear then please quote or at least reference the rule so the rest of us can review it as well.

Thank you.
« Last Edit: <10-05-19/1350:59> by Xenon »

CigarSmoker

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« Reply #111 on: <10-05-19/1448:19> »
@Xenon

I am ignoring you now. Dont expect me to answer your postings anymore.

DigitalZombie

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« Reply #112 on: <10-05-19/1636:52> »
I cant Seem to find anything about a host bring able to reload a defeated IC.

I just read that as he can only have 1 of each type, so when you destroy the IC he can restart it next turn. That means once a Host sees you as hostile target he will eventually overwhelm you or at least you have to destroy 1 IC per turn. [And that would eventually raise your Overwatch to 40 so you should jack out rather than leaving the Host via Matrix.]

I agree that it was that way in 5th edition. And also thats its  most likely to be that way in 6th too.  Its just not really spelled out anymore. Newcomers with No prior experience with shadowrun, would "risk" comming to the conclusion, that a defeated IC program Counts as crashed, and thus cant just be reloaded on the next action again.



Furthermore, it seems like by RAW that hackers with admin Access to a host can ude crash program om IC, which cant be brought back online again, unless the whole host is rebooted.

I dont think that works because the Host itself neither has a condition monitor nor can the Host be a target (i think). So you cant crash IC programs because Hosts are no valid targets for the "Crash Program" Action. I dont think a Host needs to be rebooted either.

IF you could target a Host you could linklock him using linklock program, then crash all the IC using Crash Program.

But i think its intended that Hosts dont spot the Runner Hackers if everything goes as planned. Once spotted need to jack out (or fight the IC a few rounds to keep a door open for example)


I believe that is correct too, but in 6th crash program doesnt have a "persona" target, or any specific target anymore. Which leads med to believe, that by RAW you could crash the deckers fork program, the drones targeting program, or a host IC program.

But I dont think thats intended

ZeroSum

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« Reply #113 on: <10-05-19/1753:32> »
If I were to put on my devil's advocate hat; one could argue that hosts are not devices, and as such the stipulation about not being able to reload the program does not apply. IC are definitely programs, so there is no way by RAW that IC cannot be targeted by the Crash Program action.

I would back up this argument with the fact that the book does distinguish between devices and hosts:
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A hacker could conceivably never leave their home and still interact with (and break into) any number of devices and hosts around the world, using only their commlink.

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Icons are a very broad category of Matrix objects. People have icons, called personas. Devices have icons. Hosts have a ton of icons, from the places they sculpt to the individual items that fill those backdrops.

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Devices appear as inanimate objects that a sentient being might use, like a vehicle, a weapon, or even a soykaf maker.

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Hosts and other places where people assemble in the Matrix often look like buildings.

Additionally, there are specific rules for IC programs running on hosts:
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A host can launch one IC program per combat round, at the beginning of the turn, and can have up to its rating in IC programs running at once. Hosts may only run one copy of each type of IC.

Logically, then, hosts can launch one IC program per combat round, and the type of IC program launched simply has to be one that it does not already have running. While IC are programs and can be targeted by the Crash Program action, Hosts are not devices and are therefore not affected by the rule affecting programs running on devices.

/end rules lawyer mode

CigarSmoker

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« Reply #114 on: <10-05-19/1943:02> »
I agree that it was that way in 5th edition.[...]

personally i possess the 5th Edition rules and i played it a few times as player (kind of a mix with another group, they tried to GM ...) but it went horribly bad. So i have not much experience with 5th Edition rules. What i wrote was just what i thought from reading it first time ^^

btw i edited something in the GM Toolbox Thread to answer you (wasnt realising you were the same person asking that, so it would ve been obvious this was kind of "devils advocat" matrix question)