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[SR5] Decker Question about Marks and Leaving a Host or 100 Meter Range....

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Nomad Of Endings

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« on: <10-02-19/1946:18> »
Ok, so for any entity to perceive someone Running Silent within 100 meters or in the same Host, they make a Matrix Perception test to notify them that SOMEONE (not who exactly) is Running Silent.... My question is, can a Decker Mark an Icon/Host outside of 100 Meters and stay Running Silent to avoid any risk of detection that "Someone is Running Silent" with a simple Matrix Perception check?

Also, could someone Hack on the Fly into a Host, Mark it, and then leave without being caught?

Stainless Steel Devil Rat

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« Reply #1 on: <10-02-19/2023:04> »
Ok, so for any entity to perceive someone Running Silent within 100 meters or in the same Host, they make a Matrix Perception test to notify them that SOMEONE (not who exactly) is Running Silent.... My question is, can a Decker Mark an Icon/Host outside of 100 Meters and stay Running Silent to avoid any risk of detection that "Someone is Running Silent" with a simple Matrix Perception check?

While Hosts can have physical locations, there's no reason it has to correlate with the physical location of the site it's running.  A Seattle Research Lab could have its host run on physical servers located in regional Corp HQ across the continent, or even across the world.

Regardless, distance is irrelevant "inside" a Host.  If you're logged into the host, you're IN the host. No matter if you're physically in Seattle, Neo-Tokyo, or Zurich Orbital.

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Also, could someone Hack on the Fly into a Host, Mark it, and then leave without being caught?

Potentially, sure.  It all depends on how often the Patrol IC and/or Spiders check for strange marks.  Since Marks can't run silent, it only takes 1 hit on their unopposed Matrix Perception test.  It's only a matter of time before it's found out.  How long is basically GM fiat.

Also, bear in mind that you have to gain a Mark on the host before you can even enter it.  So you can Mark it without ever entering, if that's what you want to do.  In fact, since Marks flow upstream, if you mark a lock or camera that's slaved to the Host, that's exactly what you end up doing, indirectly.
RPG mechanics exist to give structure and consistency to the game world, true, but at the end of the day, you’re fighting dragons with algebra and random number generators.

Nomad Of Endings

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« Reply #2 on: <10-02-19/2141:21> »
Sorry if I'm still trying to get familiar with 5th edition Matrix rules again, it's been a while since I played... 4th edition is what I had the most experience with but with 5th, it seems like once your on a Host, your gonna tip them off eventually that your running silent... Are there anyways to Hack and stay on a Host without tipping them off that someone is running silent on there, or any other methods of hacking things quietly without alerting Spiders or IC that something is fishy?

The fact that they only need 1 success on a Matrix Perception test to ask "Is anyone running Silent here?" Regardless of what your Sleaze rating is kinda makes Stealth a pseudo-aspect of Hacking since no matter what, when your on a Host, they will know. Am I missing something here or some round about way to be sneakier then this? Any tips or tricks would be greatly appreciated since I didn't delve too heavily into the 5th Edition Matrix Rules last time around.

Stainless Steel Devil Rat

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« Reply #3 on: <10-02-19/2302:45> »
Sorry if I'm still trying to get familiar with 5th edition Matrix rules again, it's been a while since I played... 4th edition is what I had the most experience with but with 5th, it seems like once your on a Host, your gonna tip them off eventually that your running silent... Are there anyways to Hack and stay on a Host without tipping them off that someone is running silent on there, or any other methods of hacking things quietly without alerting Spiders or IC that something is fishy?

The fact that they only need 1 success on a Matrix Perception test to ask "Is anyone running Silent here?" Regardless of what your Sleaze rating is kinda makes Stealth a pseudo-aspect of Hacking since no matter what, when your on a Host, they will know. Am I missing something here or some round about way to be sneakier then this? Any tips or tricks would be greatly appreciated since I didn't delve too heavily into the 5th Edition Matrix Rules last time around.

Well, remember you don't have to run silent inside a Host.  As far as the Host (and therefore, the IC) is concerned, since you have a Mark on the host you're a legit user.  Make your icon look like what a regular user's icon should look like, and you can blend in for a while.  It's just like sneaking into a facility dressed like a ninja vs brazenly walking into a facility impersonating an employee.

Going in Silent or not depends on whether the Host sees a lot of employee/public user traffic or if any new icon is inherently suspicious. Hacking, say, a Bar's host? You may as well not run silent.  You're just making it easy for them to realize someone's hacking it.  A security node? Well, there's only 2 spiders on duty, and if a 3rd icon shows up, well...

Also, see this thread.  I've had some very similar questions to yours, and the answers to them may also be of interest to you.
« Last Edit: <10-02-19/2304:29> by Stainless Steel Devil Rat »
RPG mechanics exist to give structure and consistency to the game world, true, but at the end of the day, you’re fighting dragons with algebra and random number generators.

Xenon

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« Reply #4 on: <10-10-19/1852:49> »
Ok, so for any entity to perceive someone Running Silent within 100 meters or in the same Host, they make a Matrix Perception test to notify them that SOMEONE (not who exactly) is Running Silent....
The general blanket rule to spot a specific icon that you are somehow already aware of (maybe because you were just attacked by it, because you know its unique commcode, because you know that the drone is flying about in the matrix sky, because you are standing in a specific elevator you wish to control, because you are snooping someone as he receives a call and you wish to spot the caller or whatnot) is resolved with a matrix perception test.
- If the icon is running silent then the icon get to oppose your test.
- If not and within 100 meters (or the same host) then spotting is automatic.

For example. If you are running silent inside a host and successfully crack the protection of a file (which is an attack action) the patrol IC of the host is immediately aware of your presence and will from now on spend its actions on opposed matrix perception tests to spot your silent running persona icon directly.


If you have no idea that there might be silent running icons out there (you are not really looking for a specific icon instead you are just wondering if there are any random silent icons at all in your vicinity) then you filer out everything except silent running icons. They are actually not very hard to notice (you only need a single hit from a simple matrix perception test to get a random list of all of them at once - getting this list is as obvious as spotting a neon sign or a running crowd for your regular perception).

Once you have this list you are considered aware of all the random silent running icons in the vicinity and you can then spot them one by one at random (or two at a time if you are running fork) by taking an opposed matrix perception test. The wording for this in the book for this is terrible.

For example. If you are running silent inside a host and the patrol IC inside the host have no idea that you are here then it cannot take an opposed matrix perception test to spot you directly. But it could take a simple matrix perception test to get aware of all silent running icons in the entire host and then take opposed matrix perception tests to spot them one by one at random.



My question is, can a Decker Mark an Icon/Host outside of 100 Meters and stay Running Silent to avoid any risk of detection that "Someone is Running Silent" with a simple Matrix Perception check?

Also, could someone Hack on the Fly into a Host, Mark it, and then leave without being caught?
No matter where in the world you are and no matter which grid you connect to you will always have zero distance to every single host in the whole matrix.

To enter a host you first need to place your mark on it. This can be done in one out of three ways.
1. The host or its owner invite you to place a mark on it (perhaps because you payed the entrance fee to the club)
2. You force the host into accepting your mark (by successfully taking the illegal brute force attack action)
3. You trick the host into accepting your mark (by successfully taking the illegal hack on the fly sleaze action)

Once you have a mark on the host you will keep the mark until you reboot your deck (or your living persona in case of a technomancer), so yes, you can place your mark on a host leave without being caught (you actually don't have to enter it in the first place).


Are there anyways to Hack and stay on a Host without tipping them off that someone is running silent on there, or any other methods of hacking things quietly without alerting Spiders or IC that something is fishy?
You could just enter the host while not running silent. Change Icon to make you appear to belong. And then just explore the host as a legit user. While forcing or tricking the host into accepting your mark is an illegal act, just being inside a host is not. As long as you have your mark you are as legal as anyone else.

However, patrol IC will randomly check what action personas in the host last used. As long as it was a legal data processing action you will be fine. But if it for example notice that your last action was an illegal sleaze action then alarms will probably go off and the host will probably start to deploy more nasty IC.

Just remember to start running silent before you take illegal attack actions (such as crack protection), since they will be automatically noticed if successful and if you are not running silent by then you will be automatically spotted. If you are running silent then you might buy you a few seconds as the Patrol IC of the host is trying to spot your specific icon.




Any tips or tricks would be greatly appreciated since I didn't delve too heavily into the 5th Edition Matrix Rules last time around.
When trying to gain access to a host you might want to use a backdoor exploit;

Devices out on the grid that are slaved to the host will normally defend with host ratings. However, if you manage to establish a direct connection to the device (by for example attaching a physical cable between the device and your cyberdeck or physically touch the device with your living persona that have a skinlink echo) then you get to hack the device without having it defend with host ratings. Once you place your mark on a slaved device (via direct connection or otherwise) you also automatically place your mark on the master (in this case the host). Since you now have a mark on the host you can just take the Enter Host action. The risk of accessing devices directly with a physical connection like this is that physical devices that are slaved to a host are often guarded by drones and guard patrols.

Once inside a host you are considered directly connected to every single devices out on the grid that are slaved to he host. This is an exception to the rule that you are not allowed to interact with icons out on the grid while being inside a host. This mean that you will be considered to have zero distance to them, no matter where in the world they are physically located. It also means that you get to hack them without having them defend with host ratings. The risk of accessing the devices from within the host is that the host is defended with IC and a security spider.

The two exploits can be used together. Finding an exposed slaved physical device. Establish a direct connection and hack it. Remain in the matrix while you walk out to the rigger van and go hot-sim. Enter the host and hack slaved devices directly from within the host.