NEWS

6th World Economy & Ecology

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PatrolDeer

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« on: <10-02-19/0639:13> »
Hey yall

I am interested in the Sixth World and its inner workings, natural resources, supply and demand, with European focus, as I and my group are all European based.
My current understanding is that 60 years ago, Black tide, Nuclear Meltdowns and VITAS as well as HMHVV hit hard and circa one quarter of the global population died. More people died in Border/Euro wars. Nuclear meltdowns and toxic spad together with Awakening of Nature led to food shortages and thus caused demographic changes, majority of remaining people moved to cities. Country side is pretty much wilderness with some tribal communities. Offering a lot of ruins and deserted areas for lurking dangers.

My questions toward you and towards this discussion would be following:

1. What is the state of oil, petrol, natural gas ? Do cars still drive on gas, or new models are hybrids, bio fuel, or even hydrogen powered ? Are there new locations for drilling and fracking, such as deep sea or arctic ?

2. How energy is produced ? Because of so many nuclear breakdowns, is the energy sustainable ? Is there new form of energy production, such as cold fusion ?

3. What is the climate like ? If one quarter of people died, I assume that put some halt on global warming, less consumption, less carbon production and so on. Or is there some crazy reverse, like Nuclear winters, Awakened nature doing something unexpected ?

4.There have been 2 Matrix crashes, resulting in huge data loss. Millions of sinless were created overnight, debts have been erased, banks crumbled. Corps are doing just fine, but what about sinless? How sinless earn money to feed and survive ? Do they do "black" low payed work ? Are they entrepreneurs, creating their own jobs, like crafts, and serving their own sinless community ?

I think these are the global questions I am right now trying to figure out. But for sure I will find out more  :)
Cheers

Michael Chandra

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« Reply #1 on: <10-02-19/0650:47> »
Iirc fuel often is mixed but it's been a while since I read about that. Deep sea is off limits on account of the Sea Serpent.

Given the volcanoes from The First Ghost Dance I would expect climate impact but never read about it myself.

Some SINless barter, especially in The Barrens and the CCZ for example. Others just keep their heads down and get paid by credsticks.
How am I not part of the forum?? O_O I am both active and angry!

CigarSmoker

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« Reply #2 on: <10-02-19/0651:59> »
1. What is the state of oil, petrol, natural gas ? Do cars still drive on gas, or new models are hybrids, bio fuel, or even hydrogen powered ? Are there new locations for drilling and fracking, such as deep sea or arctic ?
From far back i remember the Cyberware uses Power from your Body like Bloodsugar or whatever if its something small like Datajack or Cybereyes, might ve been some similar future scenario tough. And if you have Cyberlegs you have to reload them after a while (but you have a very long time since it never affects the game) this leads to the conclusion that the Power Cells in 2050-2080 must be amazing, and there are new technologies to harvest Biological Energy.
From my gut knowledge/Engineering knowledge Hydrogen storing liquids could become a thing to store Energy in Power Cells. (in real life) So i would say storing Power in Shadowrun is trivial compared to our real technology level.

2. How energy is produced ? Because of so many nuclear breakdowns, is the energy sustainable ? Is there new form of energy production, such as cold fusion ?

Mid or High Force Fire elementals could be used to produce power too ... just use them to produce steam and maintain a Power Plant.

 
4.There have been 2 Matrix crashes, resulting in huge data loss. Millions of sinless were created overnight, debts have been erased, banks crumbled. Corps are doing just fine, but what about sinless? How sinless earn money to feed and survive ? Do they do "black" low payed work ? Are they entrepreneurs, creating their own jobs, like crafts, and serving their own sinless community ?

there is probably a lot of starving, SINless  probably do all some kind of illegal work demand/supply dictates what gives Nuyen.

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3rd question i pass ^^

FastJack

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« Reply #3 on: <10-02-19/0759:57> »
1) Most vehicles are still using Internal Combustion engines as their main drive, but I suspect that they are hybrids in our definition, using electric for stop/start and low-speed cruising. Due to the Sea Serpent's restrictions and that most oil-fields are in hotly contested areas.

2) Energy production is across all types. Some nations go green, others are still burning coal. According to the Sixth World Almanac, between 2001 and 2075, there were 18 nuclear reactor meltdowns, and there are a few populated areas that are irradiated zones in or near major cities.

3) Climate is unpredictable. Overall, the world climate seems better than our in most cases, but localized pollution, extreme magics, etc. means you never really know what you're going to get outside the urban sprawl.

4) There have been a few "come in from the cold" reforms done where people can get new SINs and rejoin society. Some 'runners have retired with this system, while the loss of a SIN has also encouraged some to 'run for their new life.

Stainless Steel Devil Rat

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« Reply #4 on: <10-02-19/0816:06> »
1) Most consumer vehicles (and probably virtually all drones) are solely electric, but there's still a niche for internal combustion engines.  And shadowrunners, particularly riggers, like to roll around and revel in that niche.

2) Fusion reactors are a proven technology in Shadowrun.  For example, the Seattle Sprawl is powered by Gaiatronics' Fusion plants.  The Japanese Imperial State was built, in part, upon the leverage gained from its constellation of orbital solar collectors.  "Hey every poor country on the globe, want 'free power'? Just sign these contracts right here...."  As of current events however, beaming energy down from orbit has become priced out of the market.  IIRC, by Fusion becoming cheaper.

3) Global Warming isn't a total nothingburger in Shadowrun, but it's small potatoes compared to climate change wrought by magical energies becoming a thing.

4) the SINless have a very direct parallel in real life in the example of people living in the country without documentation/permission.  Can't be legally employed doesn't mean you can't be employed.  Black markets, even entire shadow communities support people without legal identities "in the system".

RPG mechanics exist to give structure and consistency to the game world, true, but at the end of the day, you’re fighting dragons with algebra and random number generators.

FastJack

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« Reply #5 on: <10-02-19/0953:54> »
1) Most consumer vehicles (and probably virtually all drones) are solely electric, but there's still a niche for internal combustion engines.  And shadowrunners, particularly riggers, like to roll around and revel in that niche.
I don't know about the solely electric. Based on the descriptions in vehicles from Rigger 5.0 and other sources, it sounds like they might be more hybrid, since the "pure electric" vehicles say so in their description. For instance, the Dodge Scoot in 6E CRB talks about a fuel-efficient motor, while the Jackrabbit is described as an electric subcompact.

Stainless Steel Devil Rat

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« Reply #6 on: <10-02-19/1005:26> »
1) Most consumer vehicles (and probably virtually all drones) are solely electric, but there's still a niche for internal combustion engines.  And shadowrunners, particularly riggers, like to roll around and revel in that niche.
I don't know about the solely electric. Based on the descriptions in vehicles from Rigger 5.0 and other sources, it sounds like they might be more hybrid, since the "pure electric" vehicles say so in their description. For instance, the Dodge Scoot in 6E CRB talks about a fuel-efficient motor, while the Jackrabbit is described as an electric subcompact.

Hence, I said "most" :D

Until Rigger 6 comes out, it's all pure fluff. There's no difference between CNG, electric, fuel cell, ICE, and a twisted up rubber band from a rules POV.  Barring new information, that 5e fluff is presumably still correct.
RPG mechanics exist to give structure and consistency to the game world, true, but at the end of the day, you’re fighting dragons with algebra and random number generators.

FastJack

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« Reply #7 on: <10-02-19/1026:22> »
1) Most consumer vehicles (and probably virtually all drones) are solely electric, but there's still a niche for internal combustion engines.  And shadowrunners, particularly riggers, like to roll around and revel in that niche.
I don't know about the solely electric. Based on the descriptions in vehicles from Rigger 5.0 and other sources, it sounds like they might be more hybrid, since the "pure electric" vehicles say so in their description. For instance, the Dodge Scoot in 6E CRB talks about a fuel-efficient motor, while the Jackrabbit is described as an electric subcompact.

Hence, I said "most" :D

Until Rigger 6 comes out, it's all pure fluff. There's no difference between CNG, electric, fuel cell, ICE, and a twisted up rubber band from a rules POV.  Barring new information, that 5e fluff is presumably still correct.
Too True...

ZeroSum

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« Reply #8 on: <10-02-19/1202:36> »
Given that most vehicles only have 6 hours worth of operational capacity, I'd say electric is highly likely; that or they are really inefficient:
Quote from: SR6 p.199
Unless its description states otherwise, all vehicles and drones can operate for six hours before having to refuel or recharge.

PatrolDeer

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« Reply #9 on: <10-02-19/1428:02> »
Deep sea is off limits on account of the Sea Serpent.

That was another thing I wanted to ask, specifically about Baltic. It was said that Baltic died due to pollution, but Elves from Pomorya restored it thanks to magical bacteria. Than I was reading in No-Future that The Sea Dragon, is the main eco-terrorist and protector of seas and there are more Leviathans to help her out. So critters do fight against humanity and critters do have their fans, meaning shamans.

I will try to put it like this.
There are multiple critters out there, Mundane, Toxic, Awakened, Matrix and Astral (and a combination of these)
So there would be a:
Spider
Toxic spider
Awakened spider
Matrix spider
Astral spider
and a combination of these.
Maybe a variation of HMHVV mutated Vampiric spider,.. who knows

Do these critters have their respective shamans ? I mean, Toxic shamans are twisted crazy mofos summoning toxic spirits, Insect shamans are also pretty wild nuts, summoning hives, I don't even wanna go into horrors...

In general I am little bit missing info on critters in 6th World Edition, I am getting some ideas here and there, but I would appreciate your help to better understand the relationships, as it seems that Awakened nature is finding its own ways to fight Meta-humans.



Reaver

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« Reply #10 on: <10-26-19/0525:18> »
Given that most vehicles only have 6 hours worth of operational capacity, I'd say electric is highly likely; that or they are really inefficient:
Quote from: SR6 p.199
Unless its description states otherwise, all vehicles and drones can operate for six hours before having to refuel or recharge.

That's about the charge you get now.
they all average out to around 600km...for a 1200 lbs 65kwh battery... That will NEED to be replaced in 5 to 7 years, meaning there is 1200lbs of toxic material for every EV on our roads currently.... ("Green" tech... until you go to recycle it!)


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Energy tech in SR is all over the place. In the early editions they talk about Fusion reactors, which would power a state for the same amount of material needed to power a city with nuclear Fission... Then in later editions they talk about routine roving brown outs in the lower class areas...

For vehicles, pick your edition. Grid Guide used to not only provide navigation, it also powered the car! (induction pads in the roads... which implies all Grid guide vehicles have at least an electric assist system..).

In SR, most people are too busy trying to survived the work week to care much more then their next vacation cycle or Project Due date... So the Environment takes a back seat to, well eating. But there are those that really, really, care about the environment! And they are more then happy to blow something up to prove it! AKA: Eco-Terrorism is a real and troubling reality and can spring up anywhere.

Where am I going? And why am I in a hand basket ???

Remember: You can't fix Stupid. But you can beat on it with a 2x4 until it smartens up! Or dies.

Reaver

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« Reply #11 on: <10-26-19/0533:16> »
Deep sea is off limits on account of the Sea Serpent.

That was another thing I wanted to ask, specifically about Baltic. It was said that Baltic died due to pollution, but Elves from Pomorya restored it thanks to magical bacteria. Than I was reading in No-Future that The Sea Dragon, is the main eco-terrorist and protector of seas and there are more Leviathans to help her out. So critters do fight against humanity and critters do have their fans, meaning shamans.

I will try to put it like this.
There are multiple critters out there, Mundane, Toxic, Awakened, Matrix and Astral (and a combination of these)
So there would be a:
Spider
Toxic spider
Awakened spider
Matrix spider
Astral spider
and a combination of these.
Maybe a variation of HMHVV mutated Vampiric spider,.. who knows

Do these critters have their respective shamans ? I mean, Toxic shamans are twisted crazy mofos summoning toxic spirits, Insect shamans are also pretty wild nuts, summoning hives, I don't even wanna go into horrors...

In general I am little bit missing info on critters in 6th World Edition, I am getting some ideas here and there, but I would appreciate your help to better understand the relationships, as it seems that Awakened nature is finding its own ways to fight Meta-humans.

We are not too sure until the magic book comes out, but technically:

A TOXIC Spirit is any normal spirit that has been corrupted by a Mana source. (most often environmental corruption, but emotional corruption is not unheard of.)...
A TOXIC  Mentor Spirit is a corrupted form of a mentor spirit.... IF it can be a Mentor, it can be toxic*
*Unless its an Insect Spirit.

Insect Spirits are.. something else. Something dark and twisted... They corrupt mages into Insect Shamans... And while Crazy, they are a different crazy from Toxics...


And lets NOT get started on Shadow, Blood, or Wild Spirits :P 
Where am I going? And why am I in a hand basket ???

Remember: You can't fix Stupid. But you can beat on it with a 2x4 until it smartens up! Or dies.

Beta

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« Reply #12 on: <10-26-19/0947:04> »
Quick note that spiders are not insects, as followers of spider mentor spirits are quick to point out.

Regarding plentiful fusion power vs brown outs and rolling black outs, there is no real contradiction.   And assume that fusion reactors, like current fission reactors, can't quickly ramp their power up and down.  So they provide a baseline quite cheaply.  But without good power storage technology that leaves a lot more power needed in peak periods.  My impression is that that is largely not handled well. 

When demand exceeds the baseline supply+whatever quick power the grid can supply,  then either voltage slumps (brown out) or they turn off certain low priority areas (rolling black outs).  Corps and wealthy residential areas will have their own batteries or generators to deal with any power disturbances,  but lower class areas will have a lot of disruption.
Tipperman  --
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