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An update on SR6e DriveThruRPG ratings

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Shadowhack

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« Reply #150 on: (14:22:09/10-08-19) »
I live in Seattle, the capital of the tabletop RPG world, and I'm seriously thinking about going to Talisorian's warehouse here to try and ask nicely for a promotional copy of the core rules for Cyberpunk Red. I know its competition but....:)
« Last Edit: (02:48:55/10-09-19) by Shadowhack »

0B

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« Reply #151 on: (18:25:10/10-08-19) »
I'd also like to point out that I looked through the Chronomancer's Guide to the Future and it has some pretty good rules for running a cyberpunk/magic mash-up in D&D 5E rules.

That's tempting... I've always been interested in either a lighter or more "fantastic" sort of cyberpunk, and D&D 5e has a lot more players as well

I live in Seattle, the capital of the tabletop RPG world, and I'm seriously thinking about going to Talisorian's warehouse here to try and scam a copy of the core rules for Cyberpunk Red. I know its competition but....:)

Not that I'd encourage theft, but doing such a thing would not be competition in the least!

I'm hoping that we get a couple of hefty chunks of errata before cyberpunk 2077 is released- I think that's going to increase market size, rather than shift the market (Though, it may do both)

Michael Chandra

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« Reply #152 on: (04:25:15/10-09-19) »
It's like a street of restaurants: People are drawn there and find what they like.
How am I not part of the forum?? O_O I am both active and angry!

Jareth Valar

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« Reply #153 on: (14:50:22/10-09-19) »
It's like a street of restaurants: People are drawn there and find what they like.

And like a restaurant, what someone likes or dislikes is never wrong. Something a few on the forums here have failed to remember.

Someone not liking SR6 is wrong because their not giving it a chance or are playing it wrong. It's like telling me that because I don't like shellfish that I'm just not eating it right.   ??? :o ::)

JesseBFox

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« Reply #154 on: (22:20:30/10-09-19) »
I mostly lurk on these forums, and use it to look up rules questions, and generally check in on Shadowrun stuff. I have not read every page of this thread, but read the start and the last couple pages. I think there is something that is concerning here, to me.

First, opinions are opinions. Some people will like the direction they went with in 6e and some will not. There were some that stayed with 4e, and that is fine. I personally like the concepts and what they were going for in 6e, but that is only my opinion.

However, the ratings should be concerning for one important reason. The 6e Core Rulebook is objectively a really really bad book. There are numerous errors that can only be due to editing, and lack of play testing. I am not talking about "This is OP, that feels wrong, Armor does not have enough of an impact", I am talking about contradictions in rules, some rules left completely out, things that everyone here knows about. The errata team is hard at work to correct some of these things, but they are there in the product and they are for the most part unforgivable things for going to press. To ignore these things and try to discuss why the ratings are poor is to stick your head in the sand to the issue that we all know is there in front of us as it has been well documented here and across the internet.

Adding to this many of the rules implementations are objectively inconsistent. None of this is news to anyone in these forums.

And those things are not opinions, they are concrete things that can be pointed to. Now, if the rest of the book makes up for those mistakes TO YOU, well that is fine, that is opinion. That can cause someone to rate higher. But to have a book so riddled with clear mistakes and to be released in such a poor state, then have it trend mid to low on review ratings, and try to rationalize that out, well. Ostrich on, my friend. It is pretty obvious that the mistakes have impacted people's opinions on the book, as it should. Even if you love it, you cannot say it is better with these mistakes than if they took more time to edit, and have it more cohesive and clear.

Now on to my opinion, since no one asked for it. This book was the single most disappointing rulebook I ever read. Now most of that is my love for the genre, getting behind what they were trying to do, and too eagerly anticipating the release. My local groups shadowrun campaign was put on hold for this, as we waited a couple months. The release came and several of us had purchased the deadwood book + pdf so we downloaded and read through it. Initially there was some confusion but we optimistically got together to make test characters to go through a one shot to test out the system (5 players + GM). The system did not last through the one shot before we pretty much unanimously decided that it was a complete disappointment. We decided to wait for a few more erattas were put out. After a couple weeks of us trying to homebrew some solutions to mathy problems with the system and inconsistencies one of my core beliefs kicked in "If you have to homebrew a system extensively, you are using the wrong system. Switch to one that more closely matches the flavor you want", so that is what we did.

I am a big, big fan of some of the things they were going for. But overall the flaws (real, hard, objective flaws, not opinions) have a major impact for me. Combine that with the inconsistencies (which, hey, could be part of the editing flaws) and the results when you math things out and the game hits the table, a major failure in my opinion.

But I will continue to check on updates. If there is another revision, more clarifications, etc. Hopefully eventually a pdf I can download that has a lot of the problems fixed. Unfortunately I have a hardcover paperweight that I wish I could return (even if I did not get money back. I never ever will use it in it's current state.)

Iron Serpent Prince

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« Reply #155 on: (00:50:37/10-10-19) »
Position      Title      Score      Number of ratings      Release date      Sales award   
   1⮝      Shadowrun, Sixth World Core Rulebook      2.9/5⮝      36      August 26, 2019      Platinum (Tier 3 - 1000-2000)   
   2⮟      Cyberpunk Red Jumpstart Kit      4.8/5      51      August 1, 2019      Adamantine (Tier 1 - 5000+)   
   3⮝      Eclipse Phase Second Edition      5/5      15      August 9, 2019      Gold (Tier 4 - 500-1000)   
   4⮟      Cypher System Rulebook      4.5/5⮝      2      September 27, 2019      Silver (Tier 6 - 100-250)   
   5⮟      WFRP Ubersreik Adventures - Bait and Witch      3.6/5⮟      5      September 26, 2019      Gold (Tier 4 - 500-1000)   
   6⮝      The Chronomancer's Guide to the Future      5/5      3      September 28, 2019      Silver (Tier 6 - 100-250)   
   7⮝      Legend of the Five Rings: Courts of Stone      4.8/5⮟      5      August 27, 2019      Electrum (Tier 5 - 250-500)   
   8⮝      Stars Without Number: Revised Edition      4.9/5      167      December 29, 2017      Adamantine (Tier 1 - 5000+)   
   9⮝      Blades in the Dark      4.8/5      145      January 10, 2016      Adamantine (Tier 1 - 5000+)   
   10⮝      Spellcaster: The Frostgrave Magazine #5      n/a      n/a      October 4, 2019      Copper (Tier 7 - 50-100)   

And Comparisons:

   Title      Score      Number of ratings      Release date      Sales award   
   Shadowrun: Sixth World Beginner Box      2.3/5⮝      17      July 9, 2019      Gold (Tier 4 - 500-1000)   
   The Neo-Anarchist Streetpedia      2.9/5      8      June 12, 2019      Gold (Tier 4 - 500-1000)   
   Shadowrun: Fifth Edition Core Rulebook (Master Index Edition)      4.1/5      139      July 11, 2013      Adamantine (Tier 1 - 5000+)   





   BattleTech: BattleMech Manual      4.8/5      4      July 22, 2017      Platinum (Tier 3 - 1000-2000)   
   BattleTech: A Time of War      4.3/5      51      September 25, 2009      Mithral (Tier 2 - 2000-5000)   
   Cyberpunk 2.0.2.0      4.5/5      81      March 9, 2014      Mithral (Tier 2 - 2000-5000)   

New numbers:

Position      Title      Score      Number of ratings      Release date      Sales award   
   1      WFRP Ubersreik Adventures - Heart of Glass      N/A      N/A      October 9, 2019      Silver (Tier 6 - 100-250)   
   2⮟      Shadowrun, Sixth World Core Rulebook      2.9/5      36      August 26, 2019      Platinum (Tier 3 - 1000-2000)   
   3⮟      Cyberpunk Red Jumpstart Kit      4.8/5      51      August 1, 2019      Adamantine (Tier 1 - 5000+)   
   4⮟      Eclipse Phase Second Edition      5/5      15      August 9, 2019      Gold (Tier 4 - 500-1000)   
   5⮟      Cypher System Rulebook      4.5/5      2      September 27, 2019      Silver (Tier 6 - 100-250)   
   6⮟      WFRP Ubersreik Adventures - Bait and Witch      3.6/5      5      September 26, 2019      Gold (Tier 4 - 500-1000)   
   7⮟      The Chronomancer's Guide to the Future      5/5      4⮝      September 28, 2019      Silver (Tier 6 - 100-250)   
   8⮟      Legend of the Five Rings: Courts of Stone      4.8/5      5      August 27, 2019      Electrum (Tier 5 - 250-500)   
   9⮟      Stars Without Number: Revised Edition      4.9/5      169⮝      December 29, 2017      Adamantine (Tier 1 - 5000+)   
   10⮟      Blades in the Dark      4.8/5      145      January 10, 2016      Adamantine (Tier 1 - 5000+)   

((EDITed: to add the Sales Award of WFRP Ubersreik Adventures - Heart of Glass that I missed the first time through.))
« Last Edit: (03:10:58/10-10-19) by Iron Serpent Prince »

Hephaestus

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« Reply #156 on: (13:39:51/10-10-19) »
I mostly lurk on these forums, and use it to look up rules questions, and generally check in on Shadowrun stuff. I have not read every page of this thread, but read the start and the last couple pages. I think there is something that is concerning here, to me.

First, opinions are opinions. Some people will like the direction they went with in 6e and some will not. There were some that stayed with 4e, and that is fine. I personally like the concepts and what they were going for in 6e, but that is only my opinion.

However, the ratings should be concerning for one important reason. The 6e Core Rulebook is objectively a really really bad book. There are numerous errors that can only be due to editing, and lack of play testing. I am not talking about "This is OP, that feels wrong, Armor does not have enough of an impact", I am talking about contradictions in rules, some rules left completely out, things that everyone here knows about. The errata team is hard at work to correct some of these things, but they are there in the product and they are for the most part unforgivable things for going to press. To ignore these things and try to discuss why the ratings are poor is to stick your head in the sand to the issue that we all know is there in front of us as it has been well documented here and across the internet.

Adding to this many of the rules implementations are objectively inconsistent. None of this is news to anyone in these forums.

And those things are not opinions, they are concrete things that can be pointed to. Now, if the rest of the book makes up for those mistakes TO YOU, well that is fine, that is opinion. That can cause someone to rate higher. But to have a book so riddled with clear mistakes and to be released in such a poor state, then have it trend mid to low on review ratings, and try to rationalize that out, well. Ostrich on, my friend. It is pretty obvious that the mistakes have impacted people's opinions on the book, as it should. Even if you love it, you cannot say it is better with these mistakes than if they took more time to edit, and have it more cohesive and clear.

Now on to my opinion, since no one asked for it. This book was the single most disappointing rulebook I ever read. Now most of that is my love for the genre, getting behind what they were trying to do, and too eagerly anticipating the release. My local groups shadowrun campaign was put on hold for this, as we waited a couple months. The release came and several of us had purchased the deadwood book + pdf so we downloaded and read through it. Initially there was some confusion but we optimistically got together to make test characters to go through a one shot to test out the system (5 players + GM). The system did not last through the one shot before we pretty much unanimously decided that it was a complete disappointment. We decided to wait for a few more erattas were put out. After a couple weeks of us trying to homebrew some solutions to mathy problems with the system and inconsistencies one of my core beliefs kicked in "If you have to homebrew a system extensively, you are using the wrong system. Switch to one that more closely matches the flavor you want", so that is what we did.

I am a big, big fan of some of the things they were going for. But overall the flaws (real, hard, objective flaws, not opinions) have a major impact for me. Combine that with the inconsistencies (which, hey, could be part of the editing flaws) and the results when you math things out and the game hits the table, a major failure in my opinion.

But I will continue to check on updates. If there is another revision, more clarifications, etc. Hopefully eventually a pdf I can download that has a lot of the problems fixed. Unfortunately I have a hardcover paperweight that I wish I could return (even if I did not get money back. I never ever will use it in it's current state.)

Your sentiments are pretty closely aligned with mine. I got the Beginner box, the Streetpedia, and the CRB. The only one worth keeping is the Streetpedia.

Lormyr

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« Reply #157 on: (07:56:06/10-13-19) »
Your sentiments are pretty closely aligned with mine. I got the Beginner box, the Streetpedia, and the CRB. The only one worth keeping is the Streetpedia.

If I was a customer who purchased the beginner box only to find that a substantial number of rules changed from it to the CRB I'd be quite upset. It would be foolish to knowingly throw money at a product that you knew was either inaccurate or would be defunct two months later.

Hephaestus

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« Reply #158 on: (13:17:02/10-14-19) »
Your sentiments are pretty closely aligned with mine. I got the Beginner box, the Streetpedia, and the CRB. The only one worth keeping is the Streetpedia.

If I was a customer who purchased the beginner box only to find that a substantial number of rules changed from it to the CRB I'd be quite upset. It would be foolish to knowingly throw money at a product that you knew was either inaccurate or would be defunct two months later.

Yeah, I was pretty upset. I got the BB prior to GenCon, and spent a good deal of time trying to figure out all the inconsistencies/errors in the rules. Then I thought well maybe the CRB will answer my questions. Ho boy, was I wrong...

EDIT: By contrast, as a newer player the Streetpedia has been an invaluable source book to get a better idea of the SR world at large.
« Last Edit: (13:11:30/10-15-19) by Hephaestus »

FastJack

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« Reply #159 on: (16:37:10/10-14-19) »
Position      Title      Score      Number of ratings      Release date      Sales award   
   1⮝      Shadowrun, Sixth World Core Rulebook      2.8/5⮟      38      August 26, 2019      Platinum (Tier 3 - 1000-2000)   
   2⮟      WFRP Ubersreik Adventures - Heart of Glass      3/5⮝      5      August 1, 2019      Electrum (Tier 5 - 250-500)⮝   
   3⮟      Cyberpunk Red Jumpstart Kit      4.8/5      53      August 1, 2019      Adamantine (Tier 1 - 5000+)   
   4      Cypher System Rulebook      4.5/5      2      September 27, 2019      Silver (Tier 6 - 100-250)   
   5⮟      Eclipse Phase Second Edition      5/5      15      August 9, 2019      Gold (Tier 4 - 500-1000)   
   6⮟      WFRP Ubersreik Adventures - Bait and Witch      3.9/5⮝      8      September 26, 2019      Gold (Tier 4 - 500-1000)   
   7      Legend of the Five Rings: Courts of Stone      4.8/5      6      August 27, 2019      Electrum (Tier 5 - 250-500)   
   8⮟      The Chronomancer's Guide to the Future      5/5      4      September 28, 2019      Silver (Tier 6 - 100-250)   
   9⮟      Stars Without Number: Revised Edition      4.9/5      169      December 29, 2017      Adamantine (Tier 1 - 5000+)   
   10⮟      Blades in the Dark      4.8/5      145      January 10, 2016      Adamantine (Tier 1 - 5000+)   
« Last Edit: (16:39:21/10-14-19) by FastJack »

Singularity

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« Reply #160 on: (09:57:15/10-17-19) »
If I understand the chart correctly, the position is which is currently the bestseller, title is obvious, score is from 1-5 average rating of those who bought the book and left feedback, number of ratings is obvious, and sales award is where it falls in sales on the site, correct?

FastJack

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« Reply #161 on: (11:32:51/10-17-19) »
If I understand the chart correctly, the position is which is currently the bestseller, title is obvious, score is from 1-5 average rating of those who bought the book and left feedback, number of ratings is obvious, and sales award is where it falls in sales on the site, correct?
Correct.

Shadowhack

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« Reply #162 on: (14:36:25/10-29-19) »
Looks like the CRB is slipping down the sales chart a bit. I wonder if the German version of 6E will surpass it? It has already been surpassed by a new Forged in the Dark/Apocalypse Engine game called Into the Dark. Neat to see an independent crack the top 5.
« Last Edit: (14:40:40/10-29-19) by Shadowhack »

stuh42l

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« Reply #163 on: (12:17:50/11-08-19) »
6E CRB is no longer in the top 10 and has kept its 2.8 rating despite more ratings and reviews. 

It is being surpassed by daily sales by a DnD5e cyberpunk game and the Cyberpunk starter box. As well as adventure splats for warhsmmer, an unheard of FITD game, and Star Trek. It will likely be eclipsed by Blades in the Dark soon, a game that was released 3 years ago.

It breached 1000 sales roughly 7 weeks ago and has yet to breach 2000.




FastJack

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« Reply #164 on: (18:34:30/11-08-19) »
To put the sales in perspective, the Carbon 2185 book has been number one for the last week, and just breached 100 sales.