NEWS

How do you steal anything in the 6th world?

  • 30 Replies
  • 497 Views

Antique

  • *
  • Newb
  • *
  • Posts: 8
« on: (16:58:04/09-11-19) »
Correct me if I am wrong:
Every device that can be linked to a PAN include info such as serial number, where/when it was bought and by whom. So any cops checking up on you see if the car you're driving belong to you. Same for that gun and cyber arm you got at a shady street doc...
So what do you need to do to change that?
First what is needed to get the device to broadcast something different.
Second I am Assuming  that although each Corp keep track of each sale and registration they do not give access to this data to other Corp? So the cops cant double check that the device broadcast is legit?

Stainless Steel Devil Rat

  • *
  • Errata Team
  • Ace Runner
  • ***
  • Posts: 2425
« Reply #1 on: (17:22:01/09-11-19) »
Illegally changing ownership on stolen/looted gear was a thing in 5e.  It was an extended Hardware Test against a threshold of 24.  6we refers to changing ownership, but doesn't call out a specific mechanic.  You could just carry over 5e's old benchmark, and of course the skill should be Electronics in this edition.
RPG mechanics exist to give structure and consistency to the game world, true, but at the end of the day, youíre fighting dragons with algebra and random number generators.

Hobbes

  • *
  • Catalyst Demo Team
  • Ace Runner
  • ***
  • Posts: 2350
« Reply #2 on: (17:47:48/09-11-19) »
"It's my cousin's, he let me borrow it."

"It's a rental officer."

Possession, still 9/10ths of the law. 

Yes Matrix forensics is going to be able to dig down and give the game up.  But most of a Runner's gear is going to have traveled through some shady channels already.  Intense Matrix scrutiny of an item's history isn't going to go well for a lot of things in a Runner's kit.

Prodigy

  • *
  • Omae
  • ***
  • Posts: 263
« Reply #3 on: (22:41:59/09-11-19) »
IRL every gun has a serial number. How do people get away with illegal weapons? There are a LOT of reasons. Research them. Itís pretty interesting.

BeCareful

  • *
  • Newb
  • *
  • Posts: 84
« Reply #4 on: (23:06:16/09-11-19) »
Another possible problem for this: in 5e, anyone could Trace the Location of any device they owned. So could anyone with the appropriate permission (IE enough marks). So, the owner of that car you stole could find out where it is, and let Lone Star/KE also run a trace.

I dunno about 6we, but I think it's safe to assume that if you're stealing something, you'll need to do something about its owner/their commlink.
"Welcome to Shadowrun, where the biggest obstacle is you!"

Michael Chandra

  • *
  • Catalyst Demo Team
  • Prime Runner
  • ***
  • Posts: 8537
  • Question-slicing ninja
« Reply #5 on: (02:20:51/09-12-19) »
Turn off wireless. Take back streets. Fence it.  8)
CorpSec when an alarm is triggered;: "This is so sad, Alexa play Shoot The Runner"

mcv

  • *
  • Chummer
  • **
  • Posts: 132
« Reply #6 on: (05:31:37/09-12-19) »
"It's my cousin's, he let me borrow it."
I think the main effect is that the device will immediately show up as stolen if it has been reported as such. But what if the original owner is dead or a criminal? Or both? It's not going to be reported, so it could be borrowed.

Of course if the police is suspicious and checks, and finds that the true owner is dead, they're going to have some hard questions for you. Avoiding that is where social skills come in, but at some point you're going to meet a cop who's not going to fall for it and check anyway.

So I think theft will work great for the short term, but won't be sustainable for long. (Please FBI, don't read me saying this.)

Quote
Yes Matrix forensics is going to be able to dig down and give the game up.  But most of a Runner's gear is going to have traveled through some shady channels already.  Intense Matrix scrutiny of an item's history isn't going to go well for a lot of things in a Runner's kit.
That's another issue: how much of your gear will stand up to that kind of scrutiny? Is it registered to one of your fake SINs? Is it the one you're currently broadcasting or one of the others? The police might think you've stolen it from yourself. Stumbling into an overly diligent cop at the wrong time could end up costing you two fake SINs, and not just one.

Disabling a device's wireless so it's not broadcasting any ownership info will work very well for easily concealable items. Not so much for a car, though.

May players err on the safe side and don't loot anything. Well, nearly anything; they just killed a serial killer who happens to have a slightly more upgraded version of the same rifle that the street sam had shot from his hands by an APDS round in the same fight, so they're going to see if they can combine both of them into a single functioning rifle registered to the right SIN again. Also, the killer had expensive ammo which would be a waste to just leave lying there.

penllawen

  • *
  • Omae
  • ***
  • Posts: 312
  • Let's go. In and out. Twenty minute milk run.
« Reply #7 on: (06:13:41/09-12-19) »
Turn off wireless. Take back streets. Fence it.  8)
According to 6e 50% of all bullets sold have RFID tags in, so it seems unlikely that items as big and expensive as, say, guns, or cars, or someone's commlink don't have them. And you can't turn wireless off on those.

Michael Chandra

  • *
  • Catalyst Demo Team
  • Prime Runner
  • ***
  • Posts: 8537
  • Question-slicing ninja
« Reply #8 on: (06:36:40/09-12-19) »
Looting has always been a bad idea, so I don't mind it. 8)
CorpSec when an alarm is triggered;: "This is so sad, Alexa play Shoot The Runner"

penllawen

  • *
  • Omae
  • ***
  • Posts: 312
  • Let's go. In and out. Twenty minute milk run.
« Reply #9 on: (06:39:03/09-12-19) »
Looting has always been a bad idea, so I don't mind it. 8)
Oh for sure, my goddamned PCs would take anything not nailed down if it weren't for the threat of stealth RFID tags. I'm OK with RFID tags being everywhere - or even in just enough places to put the fear into them.

Shadowhack

  • *
  • Newb
  • *
  • Posts: 13
« Reply #10 on: (23:45:19/09-14-19) »
I would just create an admin hack program loosely based on a VPN. The major difference is that the hack would attack the computer of the stolen vehicle or device, steal the proper identification of the owner and broadcast it over the matrix to anyone that might be watching. Kind of like how a VPN broadcasts a server location from somewhere you are not. An extended test would be appropriate but a threshold of 24 seems a bit high.

Stainless Steel Devil Rat

  • *
  • Errata Team
  • Ace Runner
  • ***
  • Posts: 2425
« Reply #11 on: (23:51:43/09-14-19) »
Another tactic of note is to use an EM shielded container to hold your stolen loot in.  Even if it's broadcasting a tattletale signal, at least it won't go anywhere while you sit on the hot loot.

And other point that's rather important is it's important from a meta-sense that stolen gear is hard to assume "legit" ownership of.  You're supposed to make your money at the pleasure of Mr Johnson, not by murderhobo-ing.  It's a feature, not a bug, that you earn nickels on the nuyen when you sell looted cyberware and cyberdecks.
RPG mechanics exist to give structure and consistency to the game world, true, but at the end of the day, youíre fighting dragons with algebra and random number generators.

markelphoenix

  • *
  • Omae
  • ***
  • Posts: 382
« Reply #12 on: (09:27:48/09-15-19) »
Another tactic of note is to use an EM shielded container to hold your stolen loot in.  Even if it's broadcasting a tattletale signal, at least it won't go anywhere while you sit on the hot loot.

And other point that's rather important is it's important from a meta-sense that stolen gear is hard to assume "legit" ownership of.  You're supposed to make your money at the pleasure of Mr Johnson, not by murderhobo-ing.  It's a feature, not a bug, that you earn nickels on the nuyen when you sell looted cyberware and cyberdecks.

Personally don't have problem with acquisition of loot. Think there should be reasonable consequences for the attempt, though. If you're in the middle of a high-sec corp facility, trying to drag along that corp-sec corpse to have one of your contacts chop up his ware for resale....probably not going to end well for you.

If you geek some gangers in low-sec area and one or two of them have some chrome, along with any weapons they're using, wouldn't see a single thing wrong with them throwing the stuff into a GMC Bulldog to take to a Contact to turn in for a lil extra nuyen. Of course, that means added risk if they happen to get stopped by Knight Errant or Lone Star (depending on location), but I wouldn't artificially bump up the odds of them running into a patrol, any more than normal play.

This also goes into the territory of player versus character. For me, if someone wants to play a face, but lacks social skills in real life, I will not penalize them for not being able to RP the faces knowledge and stats. I will allow them to state they want to do a negotiation check for more money, if that is the extent of what they want their Character, who is max charisma and influence out of chargen, to do. Same with loot. If players want to loot a corpse, and their character would know that it incurs additional risks, I may remind the player that, "Hey, given that your character knows this guy is Knight Errant, you would have fairly high level of confidence most of his gear is traceable via matrix or sporting stealth RFID tags. There are ways around it, but your characters would want to account for it unless they wanted a visit from KE."

markelphoenix

  • *
  • Omae
  • ***
  • Posts: 382
« Reply #13 on: (09:37:36/09-15-19) »
Also, given the prices of most ware out of chargen, and given the payout of most runs, not against using a contact to migrate ware form one body to next, or a talismonger giving a discount on a foci of an appropriate tradition in exchange for one found on an enemy. I mean, there are in game rules, in lore contacts SPECIFICALLY for fencing gear and buying bodies with ware in them. That's not even accounting for selling the raw meat to go to Ghoul groups.

The real question for me, is if you managed to do all the legwork, fry the RFID, change owner at Admin level, of Delta grade cyberware....does it immediately degrade to Used when transplanted?

Xenon

  • *
  • Prime Runner
  • *****
  • Posts: 5098
« Reply #14 on: (09:54:42/09-15-19) »
does it immediately degrade to Used when transplanted?
Isn't that the definition of Used? That it is second hand....? That it was configured and customized for someone else's body. And this is the reason why it cost less resources but more essence.