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Does some armor also help with soak?

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Moonrunner

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« on: (09:30:57/09-11-19) »
One of the most consistent criticisms I keep seeing with SR6 is that people do not like that armor does not seem to add to soak rolls at all and only to Defense.  I thought I had seen some armor in the game that adds to Body for soak rolls as well.

Am I correct or missing something?

Michael Chandra

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« Reply #1 on: (09:39:16/09-11-19) »
You might be thinking of the QSR armor spell (which likely is wrong) or augmentations boosting both at the same time. In 6w only Hardened Armor boosts DR and soak, we suspect Milspec will have that.
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Moonrunner

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« Reply #2 on: (14:31:28/09-11-19) »
So, the +1 level of Natural Armor that Dermal Deposits adds is only to your DR? It does not get added to your Body also, for Soak rolls?

What about the +4 Damage Resist you get from 4 levels of Bone Density?

sigfriedmcwild

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« Reply #3 on: (16:30:01/09-11-19) »
Quote from: p291
You gain its rating as extra Body when resisting physical damage.

Bone density explicitly augments your body rating during soak rolls.

Moonrunner

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« Reply #4 on: (17:19:03/09-11-19) »
I am asking because on my Physical Adept character currently I have my Soak roll set at 11.  Body (3) + Armored Vest (3) + Bone Density lvl 4 (4) + Dermal Deposits (1) = 11 total soak.

sigfriedmcwild

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« Reply #5 on: (17:27:16/09-11-19) »
It should be 7 (3 body + 4 from bone density) against physical damage and just 3 against stun damage (if I'm reading bone density right)

Dermal Deposits gives natural armor which works like normal armor (provides defense rating, not soak)

Michael Chandra

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« Reply #6 on: (18:06:18/09-11-19) »
"Your Body attribute is increased by the bone density rating for the purpose of Damage Resistance tests."

Stun damage is still resisted with a Damage Resistance test, so I don't see why it wouldn't work against stun.

The adept has 3+3+1=7 Defense Rating, and 3+4=7 soak.
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sigfriedmcwild

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« Reply #7 on: (18:14:46/09-11-19) »
"Your Body attribute is increased by the bone density rating for the purpose of Damage Resistance tests."

Where is that from? Above I quoted the text from the bone density augmentation section and it specifically mentions physical damage

sigfriedmcwild

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« Reply #8 on: (18:17:07/09-11-19) »
Oh, bone density was extensively errataed, I'm looking at the pdf which has the updates baked in.

Michael Chandra

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« Reply #9 on: (18:19:39/09-11-19) »
Ah, it seems they errata'd that. However, note it says "physical damage", not "Physical damage". What that simply would mean is the damage itself must be physical in nature, so it won't help with astral/matrix/non-physical-damage combat spells at all.
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Stainless Steel Devil Rat

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« Reply #10 on: (18:27:53/09-11-19) »
Ah, it seems they errata'd that. However, note it says "physical damage", not "Physical damage". What that simply would mean is the damage itself must be physical in nature, so it won't help with astral/matrix/non-physical-damage combat spells at all.

This is how I read it too.  Works against both Physical and Stun, but only so long as the damage isn't from Astral Combat, Drain, Matrix Biofeedback, Drugs/Toxins, etc. 
RPG mechanics exist to give structure and consistency to the game world, true, but at the end of the day, you’re fighting dragons with algebra and random number generators.

sigfriedmcwild

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« Reply #11 on: (18:36:05/09-11-19) »
That I can agree with (even if I hate having to distinguish based on capitalization).

I would assume weapons tagged with elemental damage are also not physical damage? I'm not sure the book defines lower case physical damage anywhere.

Stainless Steel Devil Rat

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« Reply #12 on: (18:45:57/09-11-19) »
That I can agree with (even if I hate having to distinguish based on capitalization).

I would assume weapons tagged with elemental damage are also not physical damage? I'm not sure the book defines lower case physical damage anywhere.

I'd say it's more GM call.  Stick-n-Shock electrical damage bullets? Probably get the bonus from enhanced bones.   A flamethrower? If I were GM, I'd say no.
« Last Edit: (18:48:58/09-11-19) by Stainless Steel Devil Rat »
RPG mechanics exist to give structure and consistency to the game world, true, but at the end of the day, you’re fighting dragons with algebra and random number generators.

Moonrunner

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« Reply #13 on: (20:03:43/09-11-19) »
This game is mystifying as hell to me.  Can anyone tell me if my pools are correct?

AR (Unarmed) - Reaction (8 eight ) + Strength (9) + Bone Density (2) = 19  [not sure about Bone Density here because per the errata it says I would get +2 damage resist....so it makes it seem like this would be for soak]

DR - Body (3) + Armor Vest (3) + Bone Density lvl 4 (4) + Dermal Deposits (1) = 11 [I think Body might not get added here since it is for soak and I also think that the +1 from Dermal Deposits would be for soak as well because the description says (1 lvl of natural armor) or does armor always make you harder to hit and never makes you able to soak damage better?

DV (Unarmed) - 1/2 Str rounded up is (5) + Dermal Deposits (1) + Bone Density (2) + Critical Strike (2) levels...1 from Mentor Spirit: Thunderbird and the other is from buying 1 level of Critical Strike) = 10

Soak - Body (3) + Bone Density (4) = 7

I'm a tad confused now.  I know when I dodge an incoming attack it is my Reaction (8) + Intuition (5) = 13.  I don't think any of m bioware adds to me being harder to hit when I am actually rolling to dodge.
« Last Edit: (20:33:06/09-11-19) by Moonrunner »

sigfriedmcwild

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« Reply #14 on: (20:15:50/09-11-19) »
AR: actually it's 20, Bone Density 4 is +3 AR not +2
DR: only Body+Armor+Dermal Deposits, Bone Density does not provide Defence Rating from my reading (although I wish they used "soaking" instead of "resisting", resisting damage is not a thing in the rules)
DV: correct
Soak: correct (for physical damage, just 3 for other damage)

(the errata talks about changing the DV values for bone density not "damage resist")