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[6e] Accessing the matrix Cyberjack, Cyberdecks and Commlink

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Leith

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« Reply #45 on: <10-21-19/0118:54> »
And while the rules CAN be read that way, I don't think anyone actually believes the intent is that you should be able to hack by juggling 4 commlinks :D

Aww, but I wanna... 😢

Ajax

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« Reply #46 on: <10-21-19/0619:48> »
Eh, if a player has good enough athletics to literally juggle them... :P

I canít wait for 6th Edition stats for Nartaki.
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penllawen

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« Reply #47 on: <10-21-19/0634:18> »
Not necessarily, I thought the intent of the wording might have been swap A for S and swap D for F, presumably others did too. What the book lacks is clarity, and that may be unintentional.
And while the rules CAN be read that way, I don't think anyone actually believes the intent is that you should be able to hack by juggling 4 commlinks :D

I disagree, I donít like it but I think itís completely unambiguous. Page 174:

ďIf you're a decker, your Matrix attributes are determined by the device you're using to access the Matrix. If the device doesn't possess one or more of the Matrix attributes, then the applicable attribute is treated as if it were 0. You can rotate all attributes through your persona, even if they originated from different devices

Banshee

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« Reply #48 on: <10-21-19/0809:44> »
Not necessarily, I thought the intent of the wording might have been swap A for S and swap D for F, presumably others did too. What the book lacks is clarity, and that may be unintentional.
And while the rules CAN be read that way, I don't think anyone actually believes the intent is that you should be able to hack by juggling 4 commlinks :D

I disagree, I don’t like it but I think it’s completely unambiguous. Page 174:

“If you're a decker, your Matrix attributes are determined by the device you're using to access the Matrix. If the device doesn't possess one or more of the Matrix attributes, then the applicable attribute is treated as if it were 0. You can rotate all attributes through your persona, even if they originated from different devices.”

Correct
However as others have pointed out that was NOT my intention. It was a deliberate change so getting an errata to correct it is unlikely.
I can also say though that the rules and gear were not modified to accommodate the change and thus you end up getting some strange combinations of "allowed" gear ... hopefully that WILL get addressed in either FAQ or errata.

BUT ... if you wanted to run with a house rule that would clear up a lot of that then you could simply go with ...
"You can freely swap the attributes on a device but not between devices." Yes that means the only way to have attack or sleaze is have a cyberdeck EDIT: or be an authorized user operating on a host ..  aka security spider/decker
« Last Edit: <10-21-19/0948:11> by Banshee »
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penllawen

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« Reply #49 on: <10-21-19/0937:16> »
However as others have pointed out that was NOT my intention. It was a deliberate change so getting an errata to correct it is unlikely.
Yeah, that was me too :)

FWIW: your original version makes much more sense to me and I canít understand why it was changed that way. So it goes.

DigitalZombie

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« Reply #50 on: <10-21-19/1526:21> »
Ok, a follow up question/scenario.

Runner team consists of 4 members.

Mr. Heck : team hacker with the following ASDF :   7667 (deck+jack) AR:13 DR: 13
Rick : team rigger with the following ASDF: 0065 (RCC). AR: 0 DR: 11
Alley Sam: team Street Samurai with the following ASDF: 0002 (link) AR:0 DR: 2
Barty the team face/back Up Decker with the following ASDF: 3413 (link+deck) AR: 7 DR: 4


The team decides (wisely) to have the Decker make a PAN which includes the whole team. This means the deckers firewall Attribute now benefits the whole network.

The new team ASDF scores is then:
Mr. Heck: Same
Rick: 0067  (+2 DR)
Alley Sam: 0027 (+7 DR) (Alley Sam switched DP and FW stats)
Barty: 4337 (+6DR) (Barty switched DP and FW stats)

Is This correctly understood?

Now, while the team is doing some snooping around at an execs house, they are spotted by an Enemy technomancer
She is pretty sure she hasnt been spotted by the runners so she decides to take it slow and goes for a probing/backdoor entry.

She Rolls cracking+logic vs mr. Hecks willpower +FW 7( pg 183)
She succeeds and now had admin Access to the runners network.


She decides to snoop every runner with the snoop action. She also decides to use trace icon on the riggers drones and the runners.

Q2: when using snoop action is the roll still against the network? Mr. Hecks willpower and firewall?

Q3: when using trace icon the roll is electronics+ intuition vs willpower+ sleaze.
If she is trying to find Alley Sams location, is it then his sleaze (0) or still Mr. Hecks sleaze (6) and Mr Hecks willpower


When it time to act the Enemy technomancer uses dataspike on Alley Sams smartlinked weapon.

Q4: Her AR is 13, is it compared to Alley Sams DR of 9 or Mr. Hecks DR of 13?

She Rolls her cracking+logic vs DP +firewall.
Q5 : is it Alley Sams dp of 2 or Mr. Hecks dp of 6?



« Last Edit: <10-21-19/1540:32> by DigitalZombie »

Banshee

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« Reply #51 on: <10-21-19/1540:04> »
Ok, a follow up question/scenario.

Runner team consists of 4 members.

Mr. Heck : team hacker with the following ASDF :   7667 (deck+jack) AR:13 DR: 13
Rick : team rigger with the following ASDF: 0065 (RCC). AR: 0 DR: 11
Alley Sam: team Street Samurai with the following ASDF: 0002 (link) AR:0 DR: 2
Barty the team face/back Up Decker with the following ASDF: 3413 (link+deck) AR: 7 DR: 4


The team decides (wisely) to have the Decker make a PAN which includes the whole team. This means the deckers firewall Attribute now benefits the whole network.

The new team ASDF scores is then:
Mr. Heck: Same
Rick: 0067  (+2 DR)
Alley Sam: 0027 (+7 DR) (Alley Sam switched DP and FW stats)
Barty: 4337 (+6DR) (Barty switched DP and FW stats)

Is This correctly understood?

Now, while the team is doing some snooping around at an execs house, they are spotted by an Enemy hacker.
She is pretty sure she hasnt been spotted by the runners so she decides to take it slow and goes for a probing/backdoor entry.

She Rolls cracking+logic vs mr. Hecks willpower +FW 7( pg 183)
She succeeds and now had admin Access to the runners network.


She decides to snoop every runner with the snoop action. She also decides to use trace icon on the riggers drones and the runners.

Q2: when using snoop action is the roll still against the network? Mr. Hecks willpower and firewall?

Q3: when using trace icon the roll is electronics+ intuition vs willpower+ sleaze.
If she is trying to find Alley Sams location, is it then his sleaze (0) or still Mr. Hecks sleaze (6) and Mr Hecks willpower

Q1: yes
Q2: yes, you're rolling against mr hecks
Q3: a bit fuzzier, I don't directly address this anywhere... so I would say as long as mr hecks is actively concealing his team then yes ally Sam would still benefit from his sleaze which should generally be the case but I would also rule that a single trace action would find all 4 of them in that case (ie you break through mr hecks encryption protocols and see the same position overlay the team does for example)
Robert "Banshee" Volbrecht
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Former RPG Lead Agent
Catalyst Demo Team

DigitalZombie

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« Reply #52 on: <10-21-19/1545:58> »
Aaaaw maan, you are fast..... Hmm are you snooping my network?

Ive updated my post with 2 other questions.
I presume the answers would be that its rolled against Mr. Hecks.

And the benefit of the DP scores of Alleys Sams link, is that she can use some nice programs like signal scrub or biofeedback filter.
( Yes, IT turns out that Allay Sam is a female troll Street Sam with high body)

Xenon

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« Reply #53 on: <10-21-19/1551:31> »
I know the authors intention is that you get to slave a huge amount of devices and that the data processing limit was not what he intended, but as the rules look it seem as if you can only have your own personal area network hiding behind your cyberdeck/cyberjack (deckers), living persona (technomancers with living network echo), your RCC (riggers) or your commlink (everyone else).

Tracing the physical location of the rigger's drone inside the rigger's network would in that case be opposed by the rigger's Logic + Firewall of the RCC and to do that the hacker first need to gain access to the Rick's network.




If we go with the reading that you are allowed to daisy chain multiple PANs then it get murky since this is not really how the rules seem to be written. But you would probably end up with a big network hidden behind the hacker's cyberjack that currently run data processing 6 and firewall 7. If the hacker gain access to the network then the hacker have admin access to everything connected to the network. Snooping the network (once) will pick up all matrix traffic sent to and from the entire network (all shared shoulder camera live feeds, instructions sent to drones and camera feeds shared by the drones). Mr. Heck's mental attributes and the Mr. Heck's cyberdeck and cyberjack will do all the defending.



Ninja'd by Banshee himself :o)



biofeedback filter.
( Yes, IT turns out that Allay Sam is a female troll Street Sam with high body)
Even though the wording is strange the intention seem to be that biofeedback filter only protect against biofeedback damage.
« Last Edit: <10-21-19/1555:55> by Xenon »

Banshee

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« Reply #54 on: <10-21-19/1557:39> »
Aaaaw maan, you are fast..... Hmm are you snooping my network?

Ive updated my post with 2 other questions.
I presume the answers would be that its rolled against Mr. Hecks.

And the benefit of the DP scores of Alleys Sams link, is that she can use some nice programs like signal scrub or biofeedback filter.
( Yes, IT turns out that Allay Sam is a female troll Street Sam with high body)

This where having an uber decker defended network starts to break down and honestly probably more convoluted than it needs to be ... but if gaining access to the network first before attempting the data spike then yes mr hecks would be able to use his DP for allay sam. However dataspike does not require access so you can target the device directly which means ally sam only benefits from mr hecks firewall

Robert "Banshee" Volbrecht
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Former RPG Lead Agent
Catalyst Demo Team

Shadowhack

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« Reply #55 on: <10-21-19/1755:13> »
I'm just a simple guy with a slightly better than simple mind but to me wouldn't you just do it like this?

Decker creates PAN for the team so that the team can benefit from his massive firewall.

Hacker trying to access the PAN needs to break through the decker's firewall. Once done the hacker has to beat the individual firewalls of the devices for each team member. This is simple and makes sense does it not?

Xenon

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« Reply #56 on: <10-21-19/1855:56> »
Once you have admin access on the network you have admin access on the network. No need to gain admin access, again. You are already 'inside' the network.

DigitalZombie

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« Reply #57 on: <10-22-19/1542:44> »

Decker creates PAN for the team so that the team can benefit from his massive firewall.

Hacker trying to access the PAN needs to break through the decker's firewall. Once done the hacker has to beat the individual firewalls of the devices for each team member. This is simple and makes sense does it not?


This where having an uber decker defended network starts to break down and honestly probably more convoluted than it needs to be ... but if gaining access to the network first before attempting the data spike then yes mr hecks would be able to use his DP for allay sam. However dataspike does not require access so you can target the device directly which means ally sam only benefits from mr hecks firewall


Hhmm interesting, after some deliberation I think Im envisioning it as follows. ( I think its a mix of you guys' version- one of the the freelancer).

Matrix stuff, but in a medieval fantasy context:
Each persona/adventurer has his personal armour (primarily firewall, but also DP)
And some adventurers has cool stuff like wands of fireball, or sword of beheadings (attack) or Crazy ninja assassin ring of invisibility ( sleaze).

In This World Mr. Heck (called uberlord Heck here) is the king, he has a Lot of cool gear, and Alley Sam (still called Alley Sam- 'cause thats where she sleeps ) has No weapons and only a rusty pot she can use as armour (FW) or Cook some stuff with (DP).

Now, Uberlord Heck can protect his people by erecting  a fancy Castle with a moat and walls of fire. (Giving firewall to his Allies inside and an increased DR because the moat (DP) and firewall).

Anyone standing outside the Castle has to attack well protected inhabitants.
(Like data spiking personas, or throwing tar at Them over the walls). In that case the inhabitants gain the full benefit og the Castle.

But the enemies could also sneak inside the Castle after having spotted the sewer entrance ( probe and backdoor entry)
Or just go #%$ it, and storm the gates (brute force)

Once inside, the Castle doesnt help anymore, the Enemy is either roaming the Castle walls and courtyard (user lvl) or is waiting in the bedroom (admin).

Now any attack Will be against the inhabitants own equipment (All at either user or admin lvl) so attacking Alley Sam with a poisoned dagger Will only be defended by her potted helmet ( DR 2 and 2 Dice to resist dmg)
But attacking Uberlord with a dagger Will be met by his adamantine armour and Shield of shielding.
Naturally its in Uberlord Heck best interest to have the interlopers thrown out or beheaded. So he can have his Castle in peace

 


biofeedback filter.
( Yes, IT turns out that Allay Sam is a female troll Street Sam with high body)
Even though the wording is strange the intention seem to be that biofeedback filter only protect against biofeedback damage.

Aah yes of course makes a Lot of sense. Would be nice with an errata there.

« Last Edit: <10-22-19/1544:56> by DigitalZombie »

Banshee

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« Reply #58 on: <10-22-19/1557:21> »

Decker creates PAN for the team so that the team can benefit from his massive firewall.

Hacker trying to access the PAN needs to break through the decker's firewall. Once done the hacker has to beat the individual firewalls of the devices for each team member. This is simple and makes sense does it not?


This where having an uber decker defended network starts to break down and honestly probably more convoluted than it needs to be ... but if gaining access to the network first before attempting the data spike then yes mr hecks would be able to use his DP for allay sam. However dataspike does not require access so you can target the device directly which means ally sam only benefits from mr hecks firewall


Hhmm interesting, after some deliberation I think Im envisioning it as follows. ( I think its a mix of you guys' version- one of the the freelancer).

Matrix stuff, but in a medieval fantasy context:
Each persona/adventurer has his personal armour (primarily firewall, but also DP)
And some adventurers has cool stuff like wands of fireball, or sword of beheadings (attack) or Crazy ninja assassin ring of invisibility ( sleaze).

In This World Mr. Heck (called uberlord Heck here) is the king, he has a Lot of cool gear, and Alley Sam (still called Alley Sam- 'cause thats where she sleeps ) has No weapons and only a rusty pot she can use as armour (FW) or Cook some stuff with (DP).

Now, Uberlord Heck can protect his people by erecting  a fancy Castle with a moat and walls of fire. (Giving firewall to his Allies inside and an increased DR because the moat (DP) and firewall).

Anyone standing outside the Castle has to attack well protected inhabitants.
(Like data spiking personas, or throwing tar at Them over the walls). In that case the inhabitants gain the full benefit og the Castle.

But the enemies could also sneak inside the Castle after having spotted the sewer entrance ( probe and backdoor entry)
Or just go #%$ it, and storm the gates (brute force)

Once inside, the Castle doesnt help anymore, the Enemy is either roaming the Castle walls and courtyard (user lvl) or is waiting in the bedroom (admin).

Now any attack Will be against the inhabitants own equipment (All at either user or admin lvl) so attacking Alley Sam with a poisoned dagger Will only be defended by her potted helmet ( DR 2 and 2 Dice to resist dmg)
But attacking Uberlord with a dagger Will be met by his adamantine armour and Shield of shielding.
Naturally its in Uberlord Heck best interest to have the interlopers thrown out or beheaded. So he can have his Castle in peace

 


biofeedback filter.
( Yes, IT turns out that Allay Sam is a female troll Street Sam with high body)
Even though the wording is strange the intention seem to be that biofeedback filter only protect against biofeedback damage.

Aah yes of course makes a Lot of sense. Would be nice with an errata there.

Yeah, that's an accurate visual I think
Robert "Banshee" Volbrecht
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Former RPG Lead Agent
Catalyst Demo Team

SDTroll

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« Reply #59 on: <11-20-19/0845:18> »
Ok, a follow up question/scenario.

Runner team consists of 4 members.

Mr. Heck : team hacker with the following ASDF :   7667 (deck+jack) AR:13 DR: 13
Rick : team rigger with the following ASDF: 0065 (RCC). AR: 0 DR: 11
Alley Sam: team Street Samurai with the following ASDF: 0002 (link) AR:0 DR: 2
Barty the team face/back Up Decker with the following ASDF: 3413 (link+deck) AR: 7 DR: 4


The team decides (wisely) to have the Decker make a PAN which includes the whole team. This means the deckers firewall Attribute now benefits the whole network.

The new team ASDF scores is then:
Mr. Heck: Same
Rick: 0067  (+2 DR)
Alley Sam: 0027 (+7 DR) (Alley Sam switched DP and FW stats)
Barty: 4337 (+6DR) (Barty switched DP and FW stats)

Is This correctly understood

Given they are all on one network, is there any reason they canít use all of Mr. Heckís attributes? So they would all be 7667?