NEWS

[6WE] Character Build Thread

  • 37 Replies
  • 996 Views

Lormyr

  • *
  • Catalyst Demo Team
  • Omae
  • ***
  • Posts: 416
« Reply #15 on: (14:46:30/08-21-19) »
To be fair, many of the hopefully-soon-to-be-fixed loopholes so obviously broken an cheesy (Impaired Attribute, Burnout shenanigans...) that most players wouldn‘t even dare to seriously build a character based on them. If you don‘t feel like commiting a crime when building your character, errata will likely spare you.

I do not share your wrongbadfun perspective. I would just like the book to be clearly written.

FastJack

  • *
  • Administrator
  • Prime Runner
  • *****
  • Posts: 6033
  • Kids these days...
« Reply #16 on: (14:47:54/08-21-19) »
Im not sure what magic A has to offer an adept, that cant be gained elsewhere  better.

Say Attributes A
Skills B
Elf C
Magic D
Cash E

Drop enough points in magic to get it at 6, the rest in edge and charisma/agility.
You would end up with better attributes and skills, and no downsides - UNLESS increasing magic with those points arent meant to give you any power points at all. (Which I presume might be the case- as otherwise rhe magic coloumn looks very weak).
I hate to say it, but you're right. Changing it to Attributes A, Race B, Skills C, Magic D, and Resources E gave me more attributes points to play with, increasing all my other Mental Attributes, without affecting the final Magic Attribute.

kr3wZ

  • *
  • Newb
  • *
  • Posts: 27
« Reply #17 on: (15:23:47/08-21-19) »
Total sum: 6 PP, so built under the assumption that raising Magic in chargen in fact does add PP for Adepts.

I thought during character creation whatever your magic/resonance is from the priority chart is the value you use for PP/spells/etc., not the modded value from whatever you choose to spend to raise it post priority table?  Unless I'm misunderstand what is being said here, he picked up priority D magic, which is 1, which would give him 1 PP.
« Last Edit: (15:33:17/08-21-19) by kr3wZ »

penllawen

  • *
  • Omae
  • ***
  • Posts: 448
  • Let's go. In and out. Twenty minute milk run.
« Reply #18 on: (15:33:29/08-21-19) »
I thought during character creation whatever your magic/resonance is from the priority chart is the value you use for PP/spells/etc., not the modded value from whatever you choose to spend to raise it post priority table?  Unless I'm misunderstand what is being said here.
What you say is RAW, as I understand it. But most people are thinking this was an error that will get changed in errata.

Hobbes

  • *
  • Catalyst Demo Team
  • Ace Runner
  • ***
  • Posts: 2420
« Reply #19 on: (16:11:30/08-21-19) »


It´s either that or the Errata team completely gives up. Holy shit ::)

To be fair, many of the hopefully-soon-to-be-fixed loopholes so obviously broken an cheesy (Impaired Attribute, Burnout shenanigans...) that most players wouldn‘t even dare to seriously build a character based on them. If you don‘t feel like commiting a crime when building your character, errata will likely spare you.

Unless the Errata team makes radical changes Technomancers and Adepts will still be strongly encouraged to pick up Muscle Toner, Cerebral Boosters and other Bioware attribute boosters.  Primary dice pools won't change, things like Soak and some of the secondary skill pools will go down a bit.  It's fundamental to how the Priority system works, you pull from Column C to add to Column A.

And seriously, some of these things are the same as they were for the entire run of 5th edition.  There were always Negative qualities that were "free" karma.  There were always burn out builds (Hello Way of the Burnout?) that were mechanically encouraged.

Keep in mind the Errata team could decide to do things that make these builds better too.  Increase in Magic during chargen increases PP available?  That'll be strong for Burnout Adepts too. 

I think you overestimate the impact of "Burnout Shenanigans" and underestimate the value of Edge.

FastJack

  • *
  • Administrator
  • Prime Runner
  • *****
  • Posts: 6033
  • Kids these days...
« Reply #20 on: (16:49:27/08-21-19) »


It´s either that or the Errata team completely gives up. Holy shit ::)

To be fair, many of the hopefully-soon-to-be-fixed loopholes so obviously broken an cheesy (Impaired Attribute, Burnout shenanigans...) that most players wouldn‘t even dare to seriously build a character based on them. If you don‘t feel like commiting a crime when building your character, errata will likely spare you.

Unless the Errata team makes radical changes Technomancers and Adepts will still be strongly encouraged to pick up Muscle Toner, Cerebral Boosters and other Bioware attribute boosters.  Primary dice pools won't change, things like Soak and some of the secondary skill pools will go down a bit.  It's fundamental to how the Priority system works, you pull from Column C to add to Column A.

And seriously, some of these things are the same as they were for the entire run of 5th edition.  There were always Negative qualities that were "free" karma.  There were always burn out builds (Hello Way of the Burnout?) that were mechanically encouraged.

Keep in mind the Errata team could decide to do things that make these builds better too.  Increase in Magic during chargen increases PP available?  That'll be strong for Burnout Adepts too. 

I think you overestimate the impact of "Burnout Shenanigans" and underestimate the value of Edge.
Only if you can buy gear BEFORE spending Attribute Points/Karma.

Finstersang

  • *
  • Omae
  • ***
  • Posts: 535
« Reply #21 on: (17:26:21/08-21-19) »


It´s either that or the Errata team completely gives up. Holy shit ::)

To be fair, many of the hopefully-soon-to-be-fixed loopholes so obviously broken an cheesy (Impaired Attribute, Burnout shenanigans...) that most players wouldn‘t even dare to seriously build a character based on them. If you don‘t feel like commiting a crime when building your character, errata will likely spare you.

Unless the Errata team makes radical changes Technomancers and Adepts will still be strongly encouraged to pick up Muscle Toner, Cerebral Boosters and other Bioware attribute boosters.  Primary dice pools won't change, things like Soak and some of the secondary skill pools will go down a bit.  It's fundamental to how the Priority system works, you pull from Column C to add to Column A.

And seriously, some of these things are the same as they were for the entire run of 5th edition.  There were always Negative qualities that were "free" karma.  There were always burn out builds (Hello Way of the Burnout?) that were mechanically encouraged.

Keep in mind the Errata team could decide to do things that make these builds better too.  Increase in Magic during chargen increases PP available?  That'll be strong for Burnout Adepts too. 

I think you overestimate the impact of "Burnout Shenanigans" and underestimate the value of Edge.

And I think you understimate the value of a game that´s promoting various different, remotely balanced and "realistic" builds over a game that´s filled with hyperoptimized loophole-abusing cheese golems. True, optimization and "free Karma" Negatives were always a thing. But stuff like starting with 1 Magic/Resonance, buying 6 Essence worth of Augmentations and then buying Magic/Resonance back from Zero for 5 Karma (By the way: Where is it even stated that you can increase an Attribute of Zero back to 1?) is far, far beyond that. If you want to build more intentionally broken characters and proudly post them in the forums, go on. But stop treating these characters as if they are just "optimized". They are build by using obvious loopholes and malicious interpretation of patchy and ambigous RAW. At best, they serve as examples for why this stuff needs errata.

Also, the value of Edge is pretty obvious in 6th Edition. However, the value of having an Edge Attribute of 6 or 7 is highly questionable with the current RAW. In 5th Edition, having 7 Edge meant that you could use Edge 7 times in a session, with at least one Effect scaling with Edge as well, which could be pretty bonkers. Also, Edge was even used in some tests, like defense against Suppressive Fire. It´s a bit meta (because it´s a lot stronger when you play with a GM that lets you roll less often), but it´s absolutely worth the investment.

In 6th Edition, having 7 Edge over, f.i. 6 Edge only means that you:
  • Start the session with one additional Edge Point
  • Are potentially able to save one more Edge point after a scene ends. However, banking 7 Edge is a bad strategy, because every additional Edge you´d earn then is lost right away.
  • get one additional exploding die when you use the option to add your Edge Attribute to the roll.

That´s it. Paradoxically, despite 6th being all about Edge, having a maxed out Edge Attribute is not really worth it. It´s best to stick around 4 or 5 Edge if you want to get the best results for your investment.
« Last Edit: (17:28:35/08-21-19) by Finstersang »

Michael Chandra

  • *
  • Catalyst Demo Team
  • Prime Runner
  • ***
  • Posts: 8810
  • Question-slicing ninja
« Reply #22 on: (17:34:07/08-21-19) »
Total sum: 6 PP, so built under the assumption that raising Magic in chargen in fact does add PP for Adepts.

I thought during character creation whatever your magic/resonance is from the priority chart is the value you use for PP/spells/etc., not the modded value from whatever you choose to spend to raise it post priority table?  Unless I'm misunderstand what is being said here, he picked up priority D magic, which is 1, which would give him 1 PP.
The problem is that that section, in the case of Adepts, clashes with the Magic chapter saying '1 PP per Magic increase'. It would mean that putting any SAP into Magic in chargen results in a PERMANENT gap in your PP. So we're assuming that for Adepts, it's incorrect, while for Mages it's a nerf (combined with not being able to learn extra spells in chargen) to encourage higher priorities for them.
How am I not part of the forum?? O_O I am both active and angry!

Finstersang

  • *
  • Omae
  • ***
  • Posts: 535
« Reply #23 on: (17:35:19/08-21-19) »
Total sum: 6 PP, so built under the assumption that raising Magic in chargen in fact does add PP for Adepts.

I thought during character creation whatever your magic/resonance is from the priority chart is the value you use for PP/spells/etc., not the modded value from whatever you choose to spend to raise it post priority table?  Unless I'm misunderstand what is being said here, he picked up priority D magic, which is 1, which would give him 1 PP.
The problem is that that section, in the case of Adepts, clashes with the Magic chapter saying '1 PP per Magic increase'. It would mean that putting any SAP into Magic in chargen results in a PERMANENT gap in your PP. So we're assuming that for Adepts, it's incorrect, while for Mages it's a nerf (combined with not being able to learn extra spells in chargen) to encourage higher priorities for them.

Which would also be consistent with 5th Edition, BTW.

Hobbes

  • *
  • Catalyst Demo Team
  • Ace Runner
  • ***
  • Posts: 2420
« Reply #24 on: (17:35:52/08-21-19) »
cheese golems.

mmmmmm.... cheese golems....

Hephaestus

  • *
  • Chummer
  • **
  • Posts: 243
  • "Milk Run" is a mighty weird way to spell TPK
« Reply #25 on: (21:18:34/08-21-19) »
Ported and cleaned up, it's Edwin! Please keep the salt in his thread, and thanks to Fastjack for the format.

Edwin the Exotic Weapon Specialist

Growing up in the Redmond Barrens, Edwin’s life was a constant blend of shady characters, degenerates, gang warfare, and lack of anything resembling civility. He had to constantly scrap to survive, and he hated every second of it. As he grew up he developed a burning desire to do better, to be better, and being better usually meant having a better weapon than the other guy. He picked up anything that could give him an edge over any challengers, from the most exotic weapons to the best (sometimes used) cyberware he could buy.

Male Human Weapons Specialist

Priorities:
A: Resources (450,000¥)
B: Attributes (16)
C: Skills (20)
D: Metatype (Human, 4)
E: Magic (Mundane)

--B--|--A--|--R--|--S--|--W--|--L--|--I--|--C--|-EDG-|--M--|-ESS-
    4|   7(11)  |   3(6)  |    2|    3|   2|    2|    2|    5|    0|  0.9

Initiative/Actions: 8 + 4d6 / 1 Major, 5 Minors
Condition Monitors: 10 Physical, 10 Stun
Defense Rating: 11

Active Skills: Athletics 1, Biotech 1, Close Combat 2, Con 2, Electronics 1, Engineering 1, Exotic Weapons 7 (Specializations: Dart Weapons, Whips, Grenade Launchers, Rocket Launchers), Firearms 2, Influence 1, Outdoors 1, Perception 3, Piloting 1, Stealth 2

Languages: English (N)

Qualities: (Net +20) Aptitude (Exotic Weapons), Exceptional Attribute (Agility), Incompetent (Cracking), Honorbound (Pirate Code), Impaired Attribute (Charisma -3)

 Contacts (12 Points):
     Billy Flash (C4/L4, Male Ork Fixer, drug dealer/user, and all-around unstable individual)
     Megan “Bloody Meg” Meguire (C3/L1, Female Dwarf Street Doc, doesn’t like Edwin much, but likes getting paid in “used” cyberware)
 
Cyberware/Bioware: Wired Reflexes (3, Used), Muscle Toner (4), Cybereyes (2, w/ Smartlink, Flare Compensation), Datajack
 
Lifestyle: Medium (3 months prepaid), Fake SIN (4, John Q. Public), Lecense (5, Drug Possession), License (5, Armor), License (5, Smartgun System)

Gear: Full Body Armor (w/ Chemical Seal, Cold Resistance 2, Fire Resistance 2),Sensor (Shoulder Mounted, Ultrasound), Helmet (w/ Low-Light Vision, Thermographic Vision, Ultrasound Link, Vision Enhancement, Vision Magnification), Transys Avalon (6, D3, F1), Subvocal Mic (3), Micro-Transceiver, Tag Eraser, Contacts (3, w/ Image Link, Low-Light Vision, Thermographic Vision), Earbuds (3, w/ Audio Enhancement, Spatial Recognizer), Flashlight, Survival Kit, Gas Mask, 20 Light Sticks, Biomonitor, Medkit (6, w/ 10 Medkit Supplies), 5 Antidote Patches, 5 Stim Patches (6), 5 Trauma Patches, GMC Bulldog

Starting Nuyen: 5000¥

Weapons:
     Monofilament Whip [Exotic Weapons, DV 6P, 14/—/—/—/—, critical glitch hits user for 6P]
     Parashield DART Pistol [Exotic Weapons, DV 1P*, 9/10/8/—/—, internal smartgun, *Narcoject (DV 15S, Speed instant, Duration (6-BOD) hrs (minimum 1 hr)), 100 Darts, 9 spare clips]
     Parashield DART Rifle [Exotic Weapons, DV 1P*, 5/8/11/13/—, internal smartgun, *Narcoject, 100 Darts, 9 spare clips]
     ArmTech MGL-6 Grenade Launcher [Exotic Weapons, DV (Grenade), —/8/8/3/—, internal smartgun, 8 spare clips]
     Onotari Interceptor Rocket Launcher [Exotic Weapons, DV (Rocket), —/5/9/10/8, internal smartgun]
     100 Frag Grenades [DV 16P/12P/8P, 20m Blast]
     10 Zen Grenades [Range 5(?), Speed 5 min, Duration 10 x 1d6 min, Power 7, -2 REA, +1 WIL, -1 dice to any actions based on physical attributes]
     10 Novacoke Grenades [Range 5(?), Speed 1 round, Duration 10 – BOD hrs (minimum 1 hr), Power 12, +1 REA, +1 CHA, +1 Perception, High Pain Tolerance, crash to CHA 0 and WIL 0 for same duration]
     20 Pepper Punch Grenades [Range 5(?), Speed 1 round, Duration (8 – BOD)x20 min (minimum 20 min), DV 11S, Blinded I, Dazed, Nauseated]
     20 Thermal Smoke Grenades
     20 Flash-Paks
     10 Fragmentation Missiles [DV16P/12P/8P, 20m blast, Sensor 4)

Gas grenade ranges are marked because I can't find where the gas range is stated.
« Last Edit: (21:21:03/08-21-19) by Hephaestus »

FastJack

  • *
  • Administrator
  • Prime Runner
  • *****
  • Posts: 6033
  • Kids these days...
« Reply #26 on: (23:53:28/08-21-19) »
Y'know, with Mercedes' White Hat honorcode, she and Edwin would probably make a good team.

penllawen

  • *
  • Omae
  • ***
  • Posts: 448
  • Let's go. In and out. Twenty minute milk run.
« Reply #27 on: (01:50:32/08-22-19) »
     10 Novacoke Grenades
::record scratch::
::freeze frame::

...huh. That's a thing I never would have thought of. The intention is an AoE buff cloud, right?

Hephaestus

  • *
  • Chummer
  • **
  • Posts: 243
  • "Milk Run" is a mighty weird way to spell TPK
« Reply #28 on: (14:01:34/08-22-19) »
     10 Novacoke Grenades
::record scratch::
::freeze frame::

...huh. That's a thing I never would have thought of. The intention is an AoE buff cloud, right?

The intention is the opposite of crowd control. Public gathering + novacoke grenades = riot. Plus, putting drugs in grenades is just fraggin' funny.

Hephaestus

  • *
  • Chummer
  • **
  • Posts: 243
  • "Milk Run" is a mighty weird way to spell TPK
« Reply #29 on: (14:04:50/08-22-19) »
Y'know, with Mercedes' White Hat honorcode, she and Edwin would probably make a good team.

Yeah, probably. At least until he starts blowing up the world...

But yeah, I could see them working together. Sort of a yin and yang runner team.
« Last Edit: (20:31:49/08-22-19) by Hephaestus »