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Change blindness gathering thread

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Banshee

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« Reply #15 on: <08-20-19/0959:46> »

Decking "offline.":
Those in positions of more authority than I insisted that Deckers were supposed to be able to hack without having a connection to the Matrix.
5e did not declare this anywhere, and in fact countered it.  Twice.  Once in Core, and once in Kill Code.
Assuming the intention is still that Deckers should be capable of hacking without a signal, is it declared in 6th?  Or, at the very least, not contradicted?


Offline hacking is only doable via direct connection, no need for wireless activity at that point. Was that way in 5 and still that way in 6. But no I did not spend word count on specifically addressing it, and yes I admit that not addressing direct connection was a huge oversight for me and is being addressed in the errata.
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Xenon

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« Reply #16 on: <08-21-19/0130:46> »
Offline hacking is only doable via direct connection, no need for wireless activity at that point. Was that way in 5 ...
Huh. Interesting....

Book (SR5 that is) was pretty explicit that to take Matrix actions (such as hacking) you need to be on the matrix (where you are subject to things like noise and overwatch score).

I always assumed that since you (and your cyberdeck) needed to be on the matrix that your cyberdeck would still be wireless enabled even if you happen to have a wire connected to a device you are currently hacking.

...which would also neatly explain how you could gain a mark on the device and its master and still keep the marks when you disconnected the wire (since you and the cyberdeck was and still is connected to the matrix).

...and it also explains how overwatch score will still generate even when hacking a device directly with a wire. Or how convergence might happen.



is being addressed in the errata.
Just a heads up, if you go that route then you might also want to explain how game mechanics like overwatch, convergence and gaining/keeping access on 'networks' while your cyberdeck is not connected to the matrix is supposed to work (assuming they are still Things in SR6, I saved the matrix chapters for last).

Finstersang

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« Reply #17 on: <08-21-19/0559:14> »
Offline hacking is only doable via direct connection, no need for wireless activity at that point. Was that way in 5 ...
Huh. Interesting....

Book (SR5 that is) was pretty explicit that to take Matrix actions (such as hacking) you need to be on the matrix (where you are subject to things like noise and overwatch score).

I always assumed that since you (and your cyberdeck) needed to be on the matrix that your cyberdeck would still be wireless enabled even if you happen to have a wire connected to a device you are currently hacking.

...which would also neatly explain how you could gain a mark on the device and its master and still keep the marks when you disconnected the wire (since you and the cyberdeck was and still is connected to the matrix).

...and it also explains how overwatch score will still generate even when hacking a device directly with a wire. Or how convergence might happen.



is being addressed in the errata.
Just a heads up, if you go that route then you might also want to explain how game mechanics like overwatch, convergence and gaining/keeping access on 'networks' while your cyberdeck is not connected to the matrix is supposed to work (assuming they are still Things in SR6, I saved the matrix chapters for last).

+1

"You can hack without using the matrix by via direct connection" is a good start, but it opens up a plethora of other questions around overwatch/convergence, access permanence, link-locks (if that´s still a thing) that should probably be adressed as well.
"Firing Line adds a ton of Perks that modify Attack and Defense ratings"

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Finstersang

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« Reply #18 on: <08-21-19/0727:10> »
Another one, now that I´ve seen some more snippets of the CRB:

The Improved Ability Adept power is, like so much in this hot mess, a direct Copy&Paste from 5th Edition. This is not only a problem because the Costs still distinguish between Combat and Noncombat skills (where´s Athletics and Engineering on that list?), but also because the scope of each ability is now vastly bigger than in 5th Edition. For just 1 Power Point, Adepts can now effectively raise a whole skill group by 2.

Seriously, why play anything else than an Adept now? RAW, you can even burn out without really losing your potential in the long run.
"Firing Line adds a ton of Perks that modify Attack and Defense ratings"

"Cool, does this mean that the whole AR/DR comparison has a bigger impact now?"

"Haha No :D"

Michael Chandra

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« Reply #19 on: <08-21-19/0736:20> »
Can we keep the errata and game balance debates out of this topic, please?
How am I not part of the forum?? O_O I am both active and angry!

Finstersang

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« Reply #20 on: <08-21-19/0817:08> »
Can we keep the errata and game balance debates out of this topic, please?

Good point, these debates tend to get out of hand really quick, especially when the b-word comes up.

However: IMO Improved Ability fits the change blindness criteria, at least due to the distinction between Combat and Noncombat skills.
"Firing Line adds a ton of Perks that modify Attack and Defense ratings"

"Cool, does this mean that the whole AR/DR comparison has a bigger impact now?"

"Haha No :D"

Banshee

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« Reply #21 on: <08-21-19/0840:59> »
Offline hacking is only doable via direct connection, no need for wireless activity at that point. Was that way in 5 ...
Huh. Interesting....

Book (SR5 that is) was pretty explicit that to take Matrix actions (such as hacking) you need to be on the matrix (where you are subject to things like noise and overwatch score).

I always assumed that since you (and your cyberdeck) needed to be on the matrix that your cyberdeck would still be wireless enabled even if you happen to have a wire connected to a device you are currently hacking.

...which would also neatly explain how you could gain a mark on the device and its master and still keep the marks when you disconnected the wire (since you and the cyberdeck was and still is connected to the matrix).

...and it also explains how overwatch score will still generate even when hacking a device directly with a wire. Or how convergence might happen.



is being addressed in the errata.
Just a heads up, if you go that route then you might also want to explain how game mechanics like overwatch, convergence and gaining/keeping access on 'networks' while your cyberdeck is not connected to the matrix is supposed to work (assuming they are still Things in SR6, I saved the matrix chapters for last).

It takes a bit of interpretation but the way I always saw it by connecting to a device directly you are then connecting to the matrix essentially. Direct connection was specifically written to overcome noise so that is no longer a factor, but Overwatch and Convergence is simply explained by the fact once you connect then you are exposed to GOD via the device being connected to a Host which is then connected to the Matrix. That does leave the potential loophole of what if it is a completely offline single device that is not running wireless and not connected to a host ... well that is a gray area that I allowed as a throwback but not penalize the decker by allow a hack via direct connection just without fear of GOD. Essentially then a cyberdeck is not 100% wireless dependent to function just as the Matrix is not 100% wireless ... at some point there is always a need of some kind of physical connection, and using Direct Connection hacking is just an extension of that. Connecting two or more devices via a wire essentially makes a little matrix environment if nothing else therefore allowing matrix actions.
Robert "Banshee" Volbrecht
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Former RPG Lead Agent
Catalyst Demo Team

Aria

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« Reply #22 on: <08-21-19/0846:33> »
Adept skill boosts apparently can now be added to all skills (I guess Tasking is ruled out as you can never get a rank in it as an adept)...true or is this in the errata already (I didn't spot it)?  Not exactly clear what the 'combat skills' are but I'm guessing they'd include sorcery and conjuring assuming they are intended to be allowed with this power...
Excel Cha Generators <<CG5.26>> & <<CG6.03>>

Michael Chandra

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« Reply #23 on: <08-21-19/0859:38> »
In SR5, Combat Skills was a category of skills, and Improved Ability covered a whole set of skills. Magical skills were not included back then.

Edit: I see the description and I'd personally not allow them and explicitly restrict it to only skills with a non-special attribute, but yeah, Conjuring and Sorcery should be a combat skill if allowed.
« Last Edit: <08-21-19/1112:49> by Michael Chandra »
How am I not part of the forum?? O_O I am both active and angry!

Moonrunner

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« Reply #24 on: <08-21-19/1551:19> »
I am soooo tracking this thread.

Hobbes

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« Reply #25 on: <08-23-19/1200:12> »
Concealing Gear is no longer an opposed test, it's a Threshold test by whoever is looking for something.

So, the "Palming" specialization is a fairly questionable value as I'm not sure when it would come up other than GM fiat.  Also the Lined Coat just becomes Edge generation as the Edge can't be used to actually hide something.

Forgot to check on Concealed Holsters and such, I can't recall what they do in Sixth. 

Stainless Steel Devil Rat

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« Reply #26 on: <08-23-19/1204:41> »
Well there's still uses for Palming... it's just that hiding guns on your person is no longer one of them. (and imo, probably never should have been one of them in the first place... palming is the nonfancy word for legerdemain...)

Security guard: "Hey, are those lockpicks I see you carrying in your hand?"

Shadowrunner deftly holds the lockpicks behind the back of the hand, showing an upheld empty palm: "What? No sir, I'm just a regular employee who's completely on the up and up!"
« Last Edit: <08-23-19/1206:37> by Stainless Steel Devil Rat »
RPG mechanics exist to give structure and consistency to the game world, true, but at the end of the day, you’re fighting dragons with algebra and random number generators.

Hobbes

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« Reply #27 on: <08-23-19/1246:06> »
Palming, legerdemain, Prestidigitation, Slight of Hand, Stage Magic, Pick Pocket... ect, ect.  All good.  But the main use (in 5E) for "Palming" was to hide guns and other stuff via an opposed test.  That isn't how it works now, so items that make it easier to hide things should probably increase the Threshold or decrease the dice pool of the folks trying to spot the item.

Or an optional Opposed test could be explicitly added?  I'm sure most GMs would let a PC with the appropriate skill make a test anyway, but I like clarity. 

Stainless Steel Devil Rat

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« Reply #28 on: <08-23-19/1317:58> »
Of course GMs can do whatever they like.

But spotting hidden weapons being an unopposed test was a deliberate change, not a case of change blindness.
RPG mechanics exist to give structure and consistency to the game world, true, but at the end of the day, you’re fighting dragons with algebra and random number generators.

Hobbes

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« Reply #29 on: <08-23-19/1331:42> »
Of course GMs can do whatever they like.

But spotting hidden weapons being an unopposed test was a deliberate change, not a case of change blindness.

Right but the Lined Coat granting Edge seems to be operating on the old presumption of an Opposed test.  "Palming" spec doesn't do what it used to do.  ect, ect. 

I mean, I'll take the free Edge, don't get me wrong... ;D