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Awakened and Emerged

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xGugulu

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« on: (14:51:51/08-14-19) »
Awakened and Emerged

In Character, why cant one be awakend and emerged at the same time?
Mechanically i can understand that it 1. would be damn op and 2nd be a lot to keep track off but lets disregard the mechanical assembly of a Runner and just dive in the World.
Why cant an Individual not be awakened and emerged at the same time? As far as i know, no one knows where the connections to the Resonance or to the Manaflow come from in a body. As for technos it would be obvious for people to look for them in the brain since its a Technos "Device" but i havent heard or read about someone cutting ot the brain of a magician to check if theres a new gland producing mana. And as i want to add magic and Technomancy are two entirely different things, almost but not totally like cyberware (metal) and Bioware (Biological tissue) and yet you can have both in your body at the same time while the two things enable you to do things far different from one another.

Sendaz

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« Reply #1 on: (18:18:12/08-14-19) »
Like you said Game Mechanics would be the biggest factor.

Fluffwise you don't have a new gland producing mana, mana is all around you. Rather your genes determine whether you can tap that mana or not.  With Technos it is a bit less clear, but probably similar bend.

Now there is references to a cult of cybermages who claim they can wield both Mana and Resonance, though to date none of them have been able to prove it.

Now if you were to houserule something to allow the opportunity to wield both, treat it like a mystic adept in that they would have to buy Magic and Res points instead of Magic & Power Points.  This would mean at max you would have 6 points to split between the two stats, so you might be Magic 4/Res 2 or Mag 3/Res 3 and so on. It would be a bit gruelling karma wise to go advancing and initiating/submerging in both, but in the long run you could be rather formidable.
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DeathStrobe

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« Reply #2 on: (23:48:34/08-14-19) »
Nothing canon about this, but my personal head canon says they're on opposite spectrums.

The Resonance Realms is on one hand, followed by the Matrix, then in the middle is the physical meat world, then off to the Astral, then all the way on the other hand is the Meta Planes.

Resonance and Magic are just too far removed and can't even perceive each other's existence.

farothel

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« Reply #3 on: (06:35:11/08-15-19) »
If players ask for this and you want to give some sort of in game explanation, you can always tell them that there's a set of genes where mutations indicate that you are awakened or emerged, but having both at the same time can't happen because both mutations will mean the embryo isn't viable (so the character would have died in the womb).
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drowmage

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« Reply #4 on: (17:45:36/08-15-19) »
Leonardo?
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penllawen

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« Reply #5 on: (05:02:09/08-16-19) »
Nothing canon about this, but my personal head canon says they're on opposite spectrums.

The Resonance Realms is on one hand, followed by the Matrix, then in the middle is the physical meat world, then off to the Astral, then all the way on the other hand is the Meta Planes.

Resonance and Magic are just too far removed and can't even perceive each other's existence.
My headcanon is almost the opposite. We know that magic comes from mysterious forces that flows through people and is shaped by their thoughts, and that it's not just their conscious thoughts either. There's a lot of suggestions that it's also shaped by the collective unconsciousness of all of metahumanity, in things like the metaplane design, spirits often appearing as metahumans, etc.

I think the Resonance is the product of the same or a similar force being shaped by the Matrix's collective unconscious instead of metahumanity's. That's why it's a sort of funhouse mirror reflection of magic; it springs from the same raw, formless source, but it's channeled through a radically different worldview. It's also genuinely new: whereas magic came and went along the way to the Sixth World, this is the first time metahumanity has seen anything like the Resonance.

The Foundation, then, is rawer stuff than the manufactured Matrix 2.0, closer to the unshaped wellspring of the Resonance's power, and more affected by the fever dreams of the Matrix; hence why it's so trippy. And the Matrix 2.0 itself is powered by the Foundation. Danielle de la Mer's experiment with the technomancers tore a permanent hole through the barriers between the normal Matrix and the Foundation, and let power leak through; that power now makes the Matrix work, and the technomancers being dead doesn't matter because the hole is now is now self-sustaining. Or maybe expanding...!

Hmm, as I'm writing this now I'm wondering what the lived experience of an AI going into the Foundation would be... interesting idea. And now I'm also wondering: if the Horrors come from beyond the Metaplanes, then what will the Resonance version of the Horrors going to look like? Elder Gods from beyond the Matrix! A rampaging Cthulhu with tentacles made of pure data, smashing through the grids!

(I'm not a huge fan of the Matrix 2.0 fluff, but this is the headcanon that I've adopted to make my peace with it.)

0B

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« Reply #6 on: (11:26:19/08-18-19) »
I've always seen it as the same reason you can't be hermetic and shamanic at the same time. It might legitimately be the same sort of "thing," but how it expresses itself is different. So, the magic stat is effectively the same as the resonance stat, but you can't do things outside of your tradition. It's almost like a different kind of aspect.

Mirikon

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« Reply #7 on: (19:53:48/08-18-19) »
In Character, why cant one be awakend and emerged at the same time?
In character, nobody even knows why one person might be awakened, and another isn't. We know it isn't pure genetics, since a clone of an Awakened person isn't always awakened, and while it may seem that being Awakened runs in families, it isn't a sure thing.

People know even less about the Emerged.

Running theory is that Awakened and Emerged are two sides of the same X-gene that hasn't yet been identified, and when and how it expresses is dependent on many unknown factors.
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Kiirnodel

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« Reply #8 on: (04:17:51/08-19-19) »
In universe, we know that they are mutually exclusive. And not just as a "nobody has expressed both traits before." Creatures with Resonance that are granted a Magic rating lose access to their Resonance abilities. For example, Possession suppresses being a Technomancer.

BeCareful

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« Reply #9 on: (19:45:05/08-19-19) »
Hmm, so the meta-textual answer isn't just, "do-everything broken characters" but also, "Magic vs. Matrix is so ingrained in the setting that it's impossible to harmonize both"?

This has got me wondering about, say, a magician who uses spells like Trid Phantasm, or who uses agents in 4a, to claim to also be a Technomancer. Or a toxic magician who claims to be from the Dissonance just to scare people more, but in either case, they're probably gonna get shot at even more than usual.
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FastJack

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« Reply #10 on: (20:34:50/08-19-19) »
2nd Edition Otaku used the Resource Priority A (B for metahumans) to gain their abilities. This also cut the ¥ to a max 5,000 with that priority.
Quote from: Virtual Realities 2.0, p. 144
Magic is Priority E for otaku. There is no known instance of a magically active otaku. Human otaku assign Priority D to Race, and must allocate Skills and Attributes between Priorities Band C. Metahuman otaku in a standard game must allocate Skills and Attributes between Priorities C and D.

3rd Edition Otaku had to assign Priority A to being an otaku or use 30 BP to being otaku. No matter what they assign Resources, otaku start out with 5,000¥ and a Squatter lifestyle.
Quote from: Matrix, p. 136
USING THE PRIORITY SYSTEM
When using the Priority System, the selection of otaku represents its own category and automatically is assigned Priority A, to represent the special otaku abilities the character receives. Otaltu characters do not assign any priority to Magic: no otaku has ever displayed any magical ability whatsoever. The remaining categories (Race, Attributes, Skills andResources) may be assigned any priority the player chooses.

USING THE POINT SYSTEM
When using the Point System, the player must spend 30  Building Points for the privilege of being otaku. He may not spend any Building Points on Magic, and Building Points spent on Resources must be used to build up his otaku character’s tribe (see Allocating Resources, p. 137). The player may spend other Building Points as he wishes, though he receives some bonus Sltill Points that may only be spent on channels (see Channels, p. 137).

4th Edition brought us Technomancers and kept the restrictions.
Quote from: 4E, p. 62
Resonance and Magic are mutually exclusive attributes. A character with a Resonance of 1 or higher cannot possess a Magic attribute, and vice versa.

5th edition (and now 6th) blurs the lines by a) not having any written restrictions to Magic/Resonance attributes and b) Theoretical, in-universe discussions (in 5E) about how Metaplanes and Resonance Realms aren't only similar, but can mimic each other.

Michael Chandra

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« Reply #11 on: (00:35:09/08-20-19) »
Unified magic theorem.  :P

Asides from no teleportation, no resurrection, no time travel, I'd consider no M+R and no 100% way to genetically breed Awakened to also be unbreakable laws. Doesn't stop the corps from trying though.
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FastJack

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« Reply #12 on: (09:12:42/08-20-19) »
Unified magic theorem.  :P

Asides from no teleportation, no resurrection, no time travel, I'd consider no M+R and no 100% way to genetically breed Awakened to also be unbreakable laws. Doesn't stop the corps from trying though.
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