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SR6 Hacking Guns

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kr3wZ

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« on: (17:17:54/08-11-19) »
Hello, I'm reading through the CRB to get a handle on everything before trying to run a one shot for some friends. 

I feel like I've got a handle on the Matrix and hacking and what not inside the Matrix.  Can anyone help me with hacking a gun that has wireless turned on?  The gear section mentions things have device ratings and Matrix attributes but it's obviously only on comm links and such. 

As far as the CRB goes I can't seem to find anything specifically addressing a wireless gun's attributes or what to use other than the Matrix section that states that if there are no ASDF attributes, they're effectively 0.

I'm wondering how you would handle either
a) doing matrix damage to the gun and bricking it or
b) hacking with something like Spoof Command and trying to turn it off or eject a clip or something of the sort

Hephaestus

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« Reply #1 on: (17:42:49/08-11-19) »
I'm still reading through CRB6, so I might have missed something, but my understanding is that the gun with wireless activated would most likely be on the user's personal network. That said, there will probably be a commlink you will have to hack in order to get admin access to the network, then you could issue commands to the gun.

kr3wZ

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« Reply #2 on: (18:12:47/08-11-19) »
Ahh, thank you, that makes more sense than what I was thinking of. 

Stainless Steel Devil Rat

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« Reply #3 on: (18:20:18/08-11-19) »
You may or may not need user/admin access to your victim's gun; it depends on what exactly you want to do via hacking.

Yes, the gun is probably slaved to a commlink, but either way you still need to know its Device Rating.  Unfortunately there isn't something handy to go off of just yet... but if you have access to 5e I'd recommend re-using that.  If you don't have 5e, I'll give you a rule of thumb:

DR1: Super basic stuff like Vending Machines, Traffic Lights, SoyKaf makers
DR2: most things sold for civilian use.  Guns, Cars, more expensive electronics other than commlinks (stuff like washing machines, refrigerators, etc)
DR3: stuff sold for police/security use.  Police issue cars, guns, drones, etc.
DR4: stuff sold for military use.
DR5+ Super high tech experimental stuff. Plot maguffins, that sort of thing.

(in making this post, I realize that I never noticed before that Device Rating uses DR and Defense Rating uses DR.  Sigh.)

Unless/until you see something otherwise, you're probably safe assigning a Device Rating of 2 or 3 to a gun, depending on who it was built for.  And if the gun's owner has a crappy commlink, the gun may actually be more secure just rolling Device Rating rather than being "protected" by a PAN.

If you want to just brick the gun:
Step 1: Grab Dice
Data Spike (pg. 181) is an illegal matrix action, so it uses the Cracking skill + Logic. You'll be opposed by Data Processing + Firewall. Of course, a gun has neither stat.  Per the 6we hotfix (pg 6) you can substitute the mental attribute of the defending persona (if slaved to a commlink) or the device rating for missing values.  A DR 2 gun will therefore roll 4 dice against you; a cop's gun will probably roll 6 dice against you. (note that because this is an illegal action, ALL the hits scored against you raise your Overwatch Score)

Step 2: Distribute Edge
Your Attack Rating is the sum of your Attack and Sleaze attributes. The Defense Rating is the sum of the gun's Data Processing + Firewall. You're comparing against what is probably a Defense Rating of 4 or 6.  If you have more than a 4 Point advantage in AR, you get edge.  If you for some reason have a sum of Attack and Sleaze being 0 or 1, then the cop gets edge.  A civilian gun with a Defense Rating of 4 can't gain edge :D

Step 3: Roll dice.
If you're built to do hacking, you should end up with some number of net hits.

Step 4: Determine effect
The damage of a data spike is your Attack (not Attack Rating!) divided by 2 rounded up (see pg 181) plus your net hits.  The gun resists this matrix damage by rolling Firewall (or Device Rating, in this case). Any unsoaked damage is applied to the gun's matrix condition monitor.  Devices have a Matrix Condition Monitor equal to 8+1/2 Device Rating rounded up.
« Last Edit: (18:49:18/08-11-19) by Stainless Steel Devil Rat »
RPG mechanics exist to give structure and consistency to the game world, true, but at the end of the day, you’re fighting dragons with algebra and random number generators.

Stainless Steel Devil Rat

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« Reply #4 on: (18:38:29/08-11-19) »
If you instead wanted to make the gun eject its clip, that'd be Control Device (pg. 180) It is a legal action (hotfixed) and as such it uses Electronics + Logic, and will be resisted by Willpower + Firewall.  And as above, Device Rating can be substituted in if necessary/preferable.  As a legal action, it won't incur Overwatch score but it DOES require you to first gain either user or admin level access (Data Spike did not require this!)

You can first gain access to a device in one of two ways: Backdoor entry (smooth and subtle, pg 180) or Brute force (fast and direct, pg 180).

Brute force is fast; you can do it right away as an illegal action (so: Cracking skill, and you'll get Overwatch Score) and it's linked to Attack (you'll be penalized if your Sleaze is higher than your Attack; see pg 178).

Backdoor entry is not so fast; it's also illegal (same dice pools as Brute Force) but you must in turn must have succeeded on a Probe (pg. 183).  Probe and Backdoor Entry are both linked to Sleaze (i.e. you'll be penalized if your Attack is higher than your Sleaze).  Also: Probe is an extended test; in combat you'll almost assuredly be wanting to use Brute Force as it's only a Major action.  However if you had already probed the gun before combat began, Backdoor Entry is also only a Major action as well.

TL;DR
Option 1: Brute Force to gain User access, then Control Device to make a gun eject its clip.
Option 2: Probe (takes in-game minutes), then Backdoor Entry to gain User access, then Control Device to make a gun eject its clip.
« Last Edit: (18:46:30/08-11-19) by Stainless Steel Devil Rat »
RPG mechanics exist to give structure and consistency to the game world, true, but at the end of the day, you’re fighting dragons with algebra and random number generators.

kr3wZ

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« Reply #5 on: (21:13:35/08-11-19) »
Thanks so much, that's exactly what I was looking for.

markelphoenix

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« Reply #6 on: (23:03:47/08-11-19) »
If you instead wanted to make the gun eject its clip, that'd be Control Device (pg. 180) It is a legal action (hotfixed) and as such it uses Electronics + Logic, and will be resisted by Willpower + Firewall.  And as above, Device Rating can be substituted in if necessary/preferable.  As a legal action, it won't incur Overwatch score but it DOES require you to first gain either user or admin level access (Data Spike did not require this!)

You can first gain access to a device in one of two ways: Backdoor entry (smooth and subtle, pg 180) or Brute force (fast and direct, pg 180).

Brute force is fast; you can do it right away as an illegal action (so: Cracking skill, and you'll get Overwatch Score) and it's linked to Attack (you'll be penalized if your Sleaze is higher than your Attack; see pg 178).

Backdoor entry is not so fast; it's also illegal (same dice pools as Brute Force) but you must in turn must have succeeded on a Probe (pg. 183).  Probe and Backdoor Entry are both linked to Sleaze (i.e. you'll be penalized if your Attack is higher than your Sleaze).  Also: Probe is an extended test; in combat you'll almost assuredly be wanting to use Brute Force as it's only a Major action.  However if you had already probed the gun before combat began, Backdoor Entry is also only a Major action as well.

TL;DR
Option 1: Brute Force to gain User access, then Control Device to make a gun eject its clip.
Option 2: Probe (takes in-game minutes), then Backdoor Entry to gain User access, then Control Device to make a gun eject its clip.

Just a follow up on the Backdoor....is there time limit on that? If not, before combat starts, if I was ambushing, or such, I would Probe, Backdoor, then hold for combat where I would tell the gun to Eject Clip on my first combat round.

Stainless Steel Devil Rat

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« Reply #7 on: (23:10:43/08-11-19) »
If you had the chance to do some prepatory, pre-combat hacking you'd probably probe first, yes.  You may or may not backdoor before the fight begins though...  the upside is that's one less action you need to do.  The downside is you generate Overwatch score every round while you maintain this access.  Of course, attempting (and even failing!) on a Backdoor Entry doesn't kick off alarms.  Brute force, whether successful or not, is obvious.
RPG mechanics exist to give structure and consistency to the game world, true, but at the end of the day, you’re fighting dragons with algebra and random number generators.

markelphoenix

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« Reply #8 on: (23:29:17/08-11-19) »
If you had the chance to do some prepatory, pre-combat hacking you'd probably probe first, yes.  You may or may not backdoor before the fight begins though...  the upside is that's one less action you need to do.  The downside is you generate Overwatch score every round while you maintain this access.  Of course, attempting (and even failing!) on a Backdoor Entry doesn't kick off alarms.  Brute force, whether successful or not, is obvious.

Oh yeah, the Overwatch score would be bad. Could see it as a, "Hey guys, I'll seen the go signal to your PANs. Give me a few to get into [insert most threatening hardware being wielded]."

Stainless Steel Devil Rat

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« Reply #9 on: (00:20:42/08-12-19) »
If you had the chance to do some prepatory, pre-combat hacking you'd probably probe first, yes.  You may or may not backdoor before the fight begins though...  the upside is that's one less action you need to do.  The downside is you generate Overwatch score every round while you maintain this access.  Of course, attempting (and even failing!) on a Backdoor Entry doesn't kick off alarms.  Brute force, whether successful or not, is obvious.

Actually, I misremembered something.  On review.. the access gained by Backdoor Entry actually gets a special exemption from accruing Overwatch Score.  So, yeah, if you have warning a fight's coming before the fight begins, Probe+backdoor is what you'll probably do.
RPG mechanics exist to give structure and consistency to the game world, true, but at the end of the day, you’re fighting dragons with algebra and random number generators.

markelphoenix

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« Reply #10 on: (08:18:16/08-12-19) »
If you had the chance to do some prepatory, pre-combat hacking you'd probably probe first, yes.  You may or may not backdoor before the fight begins though...  the upside is that's one less action you need to do.  The downside is you generate Overwatch score every round while you maintain this access.  Of course, attempting (and even failing!) on a Backdoor Entry doesn't kick off alarms.  Brute force, whether successful or not, is obvious.

Actually, I misremembered something.  On review.. the access gained by Backdoor Entry actually gets a special exemption from accruing Overwatch Score.  So, yeah, if you have warning a fight's coming before the fight begins, Probe+backdoor is what you'll probably do.

That's awesome! Can you have multiple Backdoors active at once?  Picture the four SecGuards at the entrance to the house you're making an extraction from having their clips drop out all at same time, followed by an opening volley from a sniper and mage :-p

Hobbes

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« Reply #11 on: (08:36:00/08-12-19) »
Combat hacking in 6E looks to be the realm of the specialist.  DataSpikes do Attack Rating / 2 + net hits so you'll typically need 6 or 7 net hits to Brick a gun in a single shot.  You'll want to be running the Fork and Lockdown programs and hit two guns at once and link lock them.

If you can get your Decker to 2 Major actions a turn and can toss around 20 Dice for a Data Spike you can potentially Brick 4 guns per pass.  And if they're Link Locked they won't be able to go wireless off.  Any guns you "wound" likely won't be able to shut wireless off and it looks like 6th Edition Matrix Damage does inflict dice pool penalties.

Others can correct me if I'm wrong, but I didn't see the "Turn Everything Wireless Off" as a Free Action in 6th?  RAW it looks like you need to spend a Minor Action for each device to Change Device Mode. 

There typically aren't enough significant wireless bonuses for a Shadowrunner or most gangers, criminals, and such to bother keeping the Wireless on.  But the Corporate goons probably aren't able to shut off wireless without a payroll deduction and spending several Major Actions acknowledging the liability pop-ups.   :D

Like 5th edition you're likely better off just shooting something, but if you throw enough dice you can be a PITA in some cases. 

Stainless Steel Devil Rat

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« Reply #12 on: (09:14:20/08-12-19) »
Yeah the "turn everything wireless off as a free action" thing basically killed the viability of combat hacking in 5e. For anyone less capable than a prime runner hacker, at any rate.

In 6we, there's no "go immune to being hacked" option. It's a minor action to turn ONE device wireless off, and an electronics skill check (threshold 2) to accomplish.
RPG mechanics exist to give structure and consistency to the game world, true, but at the end of the day, you’re fighting dragons with algebra and random number generators.

Michael Chandra

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« Reply #13 on: (09:17:47/08-12-19) »
Threshold 1, no? Page 247?
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Stainless Steel Devil Rat

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« Reply #14 on: (09:30:17/08-12-19) »
Threshold 1, no? Page 247?

Eh I was going by memory. Yes, that's right. And for those worrying about BEING hacked: outside of combat when you don't have to get it done in a fraction of a 3 second combat turn, there's no test to toggle a device wireless off.

@why don't runners just run wireless off to begin with: Because wireless bonuses aren't a paltry +1 or +2 dice bonus any more.  They tend to be edge gains or action rebates.  Those are rather valuable effects.

@2 majors for a hacker: Easy peasy lemon squeezy to do.  Just being in Hotsim gives you 1 major and 4 minors. You can turn those 4 minors into a second major as you please, round by round.

@matrix damage penalties: Yes, this is a thing! In 5e matrix damage was like hitpoints in D&D... so long as you have at least 1 left you suffer no detriments.  Matrix condition monitors now work like other monitors with respect to damage... even if your first data spike doesn't brick the gun, so long as you did at least 3 damage after soaking you're imposing a damage penalty on the NPC's use of that gun.
« Last Edit: (10:08:39/08-12-19) by Stainless Steel Devil Rat »
RPG mechanics exist to give structure and consistency to the game world, true, but at the end of the day, you’re fighting dragons with algebra and random number generators.