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Limit to Amp Up/Increase Area?

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penllawen

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« Reply #15 on: (04:49:26/08-12-19) »
I don't know. Maybe there is no limit, just in case your runner wants to risk another Great Ghost Dance. Ideally, the no limit then allows for high magic rituals like that.
Well, except a loooot of people died to power the Great Ghost Dance, not just the one caster. In theory, as RAW in 6e, only one shaman would have had to have died (notwithstanding markelphoenix's nifty houserule suggestion from a few posts back.)

Actually, thinking about it, how did Daniel Howling Coyote survive when the ritual killed so many other participants?! I never really considered that before.

Moonshine Fox

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« Reply #16 on: (05:55:57/08-12-19) »
I don't know. Maybe there is no limit, just in case your runner wants to risk another Great Ghost Dance. Ideally, the no limit then allows for high magic rituals like that.
Well, except a loooot of people died to power the Great Ghost Dance, not just the one caster. In theory, as RAW in 6e, only one shaman would have had to have died (notwithstanding markelphoenix's nifty houserule suggestion from a few posts back.)

Actually, thinking about it, how did Daniel Howling Coyote survive when the ritual killed so many other participants?! I never really considered that before.

Because the Great Ghost Dance was basically a form of sacrificial blood magic fueled by the spiritual energy of willing sacrifices. Howling Coyote was directing the mana and so didn't sacrifice himself.

penllawen

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« Reply #17 on: (05:56:49/08-12-19) »
Because the Great Ghost Dance was basically a form of sacrificial blood magic fueled by the spiritual energy of willing sacrifices. Howling Coyote was directing the mana and so didn't sacrifice himself.
Maybe that's what they want you to believe, chummer  ;)

FastJack

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« Reply #18 on: (07:44:40/08-12-19) »
Because the Great Ghost Dance was basically a form of sacrificial blood magic fueled by the spiritual energy of willing sacrifices. Howling Coyote was directing the mana and so didn't sacrifice himself.
Maybe that's what they want you to believe, chummer  ;)
Sam Verner (Twist) survived the second one as well.

Moonshine Fox

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« Reply #19 on: (10:13:54/08-12-19) »
Because the Great Ghost Dance was basically a form of sacrificial blood magic fueled by the spiritual energy of willing sacrifices. Howling Coyote was directing the mana and so didn't sacrifice himself.
Maybe that's what they want you to believe, chummer  ;)

It was all spelled out pretty clear when Howling Coyote explained it to Twist so he could do a second one. Short of outright calling it blood magic anyway.

Shinobi Killfist

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« Reply #20 on: (11:06:18/08-12-19) »
Because the Great Ghost Dance was basically a form of sacrificial blood magic fueled by the spiritual energy of willing sacrifices. Howling Coyote was directing the mana and so didn't sacrifice himself.
Maybe that's what they want you to believe, chummer  ;)
Sam Verner (Twist) survived the second one as well.

Though he burned his magic out.

Hephaestus

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« Reply #21 on: (13:56:09/08-12-19) »
I don't magic much, but as I understand it, the order of operations is Pick Spell --> Amp Up and/or Increase AoE --> Spell goes off --> Resist drain.

Why not just swap the spell going off and resisting drain? If the power of the spell renders you unconscious or dead, then it doesn't manifest.

markelphoenix

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« Reply #22 on: (15:13:54/08-12-19) »
I don't magic much, but as I understand it, the order of operations is Pick Spell --> Amp Up and/or Increase AoE --> Spell goes off --> Resist drain.

Why not just swap the spell going off and resisting drain? If the power of the spell renders you unconscious or dead, then it doesn't manifest.

Horrible idea. Player should be able to make a sacrifice play to save team. Knows going to die, so does a 9P fireball to clear out enemies. He fails Drain and dies, but saved team.

stuh42l

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« Reply #23 on: (20:39:16/08-12-19) »
In this case it can be a 9,000,000,000,000 DV fireball!

Hephaestus

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« Reply #24 on: (21:26:23/08-12-19) »
I don't magic much, but as I understand it, the order of operations is Pick Spell --> Amp Up and/or Increase AoE --> Spell goes off --> Resist drain.

Why not just swap the spell going off and resisting drain? If the power of the spell renders you unconscious or dead, then it doesn't manifest.

Horrible idea. Player should be able to make a sacrifice play to save team. Knows going to die, so does a 9P fireball to clear out enemies. He fails Drain and dies, but saved team.

Or, know your limits and gamble on dumping your Edge into your soak pool to avoid dying.

And no, nuking a whole building as a "sacrifice play" should not be an option. If the amount of magic you're channeling is enough to kill you, it should just kill you. Do not pass go. Do not collect 200 nuyen. Do not do the thing. Just die. Maybe explode into glitter and mystical confetti.

Mages are already overpowered as it is, and being able to bring about an apocalyptic level event with the chance of passing out or dying is ludicrous. No other character type has any options remotely as powerful, and for good reason. Street Sams don't get tactical nuke rocket launchers, Deckers don't have access to Ice-9, and Riggers don't get building-sized mechas, all because they don't scale with the intended power level of the game.

An Elf Aspected Magician who has focus in Sorcery can leave chargen with Magic 6, Sorcery 7, Willpower 5, and Charisma 8, and have a force 4 Power Focus. That would give them a base dice pool of 17 (5.7 hits) per attack, and a base drain pool of 13 (4.3 hits). Even if you Amp Up for 3, that's only 12 drain (not enough to kill you) on a Fireball. You would have to Amp Up for 10 or more to be lethal without edge use.

PiXeL01

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« Reply #25 on: (08:57:00/08-13-19) »
If there was no limit to how far you could push your spells then the planet would have been cleansed of humidity by now by Toxic Destroyer Magician going global scale AE and super nova damage to kill off everyone including themselves.
Toxic mages are mad enough to do so even without blood magic.
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penllawen

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« Reply #26 on: (14:11:13/08-16-19) »
Horrible idea. Player should be able to make a sacrifice play to save team. Knows going to die, so does a 9P fireball to clear out enemies. He fails Drain and dies, but saved team.
Strongly agree, both thematically and because thatís how itís always worked in the past (IIRC). The problem to be fixed here is how 6e apparently doesn't place any limits on Amp Up.

markelphoenix

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« Reply #27 on: (18:46:37/08-16-19) »
Horrible idea. Player should be able to make a sacrifice play to save team. Knows going to die, so does a 9P fireball to clear out enemies. He fails Drain and dies, but saved team.
Strongly agree, both thematically and because thatís how itís always worked in the past (IIRC). The problem to be fixed here is how 6e apparently doesn't place any limits on Amp Up.

Agreed, I still think my suggestion earlier in thread would solve most of concerns. Magicx3 or Magicx2 if you want to be super conservative.

penllawen

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« Reply #28 on: (18:52:16/08-16-19) »
Aye, I think that's a very reasonable idea.

KatoHearts

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« Reply #29 on: (19:19:52/08-16-19) »
If there was no limit to how far you could push your spells then the planet would have been cleansed of humidity.

Toxics confirmed to prefer a dry heat.