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Limit to Amp Up/Increase Area?

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stuh42l

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« on: (10:51:24/08-11-19) »
I am trying to parse 6E and I can't find a limit to how much you can Amp up damage or increase area on a spell. Obviously the total drain is a factor, but if there is no limit then a mage willing to kill himself could fireball all of Seattle into ash with a single spell and that doesn't sound right.

If anyone can show me a limit to this I would be grateful.

Michael Chandra

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« Reply #1 on: (10:58:14/08-11-19) »
No explicit limit but I doubt a gm would allow you to cast at thousands of drain.
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stuh42l

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« Reply #2 on: (11:03:07/08-11-19) »
Sure but relying on GM fiat is a bad precedent for a ruleset no?

Magic is only going to get MORE powerful once the splat train starts rolling in.  Free amps, more ways to reduce drain, etc.  We all know its coming.

As it stands having no limits means mages can already blow out the entire first floor of building and set them on fire, etc and still walk away from it.

Stainless Steel Devil Rat

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« Reply #3 on: (11:28:27/08-11-19) »
As it stands having no limits means mages can already blow out the entire first floor of building and set them on fire, etc and still walk away from it.

As if it's not possible to overcast F12 Lightning or Fireballs for little or no drain in 5e?
RPG mechanics exist to give structure and consistency to the game world, true, but at the end of the day, you’re fighting dragons with algebra and random number generators.

Lormyr

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« Reply #4 on: (11:38:13/08-11-19) »
As if it's not possible to overcast F12 Lightning or Fireballs for little or no drain in 5e?

It's a valid statement, both comparatively to 5e, and stand alone for the edition being balanced against itself.

Michael Chandra

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« Reply #5 on: (11:59:22/08-11-19) »
GM Fiat applies to Edge abuse anyway so it's an inherent part of the system. But yeah an explicit limit is needed.
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stuh42l

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« Reply #6 on: (11:59:48/08-11-19) »
As it stands having no limits means mages can already blow out the entire first floor of building and set them on fire, etc and still walk away from it.

As if it's not possible to overcast F12 Lightning or Fireballs for little or no drain in 5e?

Right, except the area was still LIMITED.  This is allowing me to cast a fireball to cover a theoretically INFINITE area.  Even now as a mage I can firebomb an entire first floor of a skyscraper and walk away with a single spell.


Stainless Steel Devil Rat

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« Reply #7 on: (12:39:48/08-11-19) »
In 5e F12 gives you most of a city block. A crater of devastation nearly 50 meters across.
RPG mechanics exist to give structure and consistency to the game world, true, but at the end of the day, you’re fighting dragons with algebra and random number generators.

stuh42l

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« Reply #8 on: (12:46:47/08-11-19) »
In 5e F12 gives you most of a city block. A crater of devastation nearly 50 meters across.

Right, and now that mere limit no longer applies.  Nor the pesky limitations of only being F12.

FastJack

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« Reply #9 on: (13:08:53/08-11-19) »
Sure but relying on GM fiat is a bad precedent for a ruleset no?
Every game I've ever played has relied on GM fiat to overwrite any rules if it didn't make sense in the story being told. Most rulebooks actually (used to?) put it in the rules that GM has final say on anything. Just because the rules doesn't say it, doesn't mean the GM has to agree with the over-zealous player.

Hobbes

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« Reply #10 on: (13:32:14/08-11-19) »
GM Fiat applies to Edge abuse anyway so it's an inherent part of the system. But yeah an explicit limit is needed.

Up to Magic Rating seems like the easy answer.  But it should be explicit, otherwise a suicidal mage would RAW be able to AOE the entire Giasphere.  Seems likely that behavior is unintended. 

FastJack

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« Reply #11 on: (14:18:40/08-11-19) »
GM Fiat applies to Edge abuse anyway so it's an inherent part of the system. But yeah an explicit limit is needed.

Up to Magic Rating seems like the easy answer.  But it should be explicit, otherwise a suicidal mage would RAW be able to AOE the entire Giasphere.  Seems likely that behavior is unintended. 
I don't know. Maybe there is no limit, just in case your runner wants to risk another Great Ghost Dance. Ideally, the no limit then allows for high magic rituals like that.

Michael Chandra

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« Reply #12 on: (14:42:51/08-11-19) »
I'd put the limit at drain equal to all 3 kinds of conditions combined or something.
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markelphoenix

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« Reply #13 on: (21:23:57/08-11-19) »
I kind of like how Spirits were done. Magicx3. Call it "Astral To Material Threshold", the limit a living conduit is capable of channeling Astral(i.e. using magic). Anything beyond this limit, the conduit loses the spell/summon.

Virtue of this, especially if this gets added to magic splat book, is you could tie multiple magical things to it. Summoning? ATMTx3. Amp Ups? Can do ATMTx3 ramps (whether dmg, area, or some other form. Each would be tallied together. So at Magic 6, you couldn't do 18 dmg, 18 area increases, it would be more like 9 dmg increases, 9 area increases).

Could tie traits and meta-magics that modified that over it's base calculation of Magicx3. Could even go into negative ATMT metamagics that traded the ATMT for say, guaranteed drain resistance ("By buffering yourself against the negative physical effects of Drain, you are able to draw upon less of the Astral" [ATMT is halved, mage reduces any drain by 1/4 of drain resistance die pool before rolling to resist drain]. I see a lot of interesting trade offs that could be made by making a calculated magical attribute such as this.

Michael Chandra

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« Reply #14 on: (00:31:53/08-12-19) »
Note to self: start my houserule collection. Put the Mx3 Amp restriction on it.
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