NEWS

[SR6] The Meta

  • 28 Replies
  • 1641 Views

dezmont

  • *
  • Chummer
  • **
  • Posts: 189
« Reply #15 on: <08-09-19/0808:41> »
Oh, and one last thing Re: Face+Mage meta.

Social Stealth vs Physical Stealth. Physical Stealth didn't just get hit with the nerf bat. It got hit with one of those cool giant nerf sniper rifles that never actually work.

Basically there are two ways to conceal your illicit activities on a run: Blend in, or not be seen, basically either con+etiquette or sneaking. Both have/had their advantages. It is fully possible to switch between them (Sneak in, stash your big gear, put on suit. Or slip away, hide, put on body armor) but if you planned to do that you still leaned social (Its harder to gear up than to gear down once your actively sneaking about) and most PCs leaned hard one way or the other.

Social Stealth allowed you to proactively use your stealth to directly influence your environment, but required you to have significantly less armor than other runners and use smaller, worse weapons, and the environment could more easily influence you, and you were much more isolated from the team. Physical stealth allowed you to go in with full kit, a holdout pistol was equally subtle as an HMG to a physical stealth pistol, because you don't gotta make palming tests if no one ever sees you at all, and you could carry a satchel full of breaching charges, some jammers, whatever. You also could more easily support other team members because you could stop what you were doing at any time to do something else. But you couldn't as easily change your environment, you had to avoid it.

SR6 SIGNIFICANTLY affected the balance of power here in 3 major ways:

1: Most DV comes from net hits now. This means smaller weapons are much better.

2: Armor is much less useful. This means both the fact social stealth isolates you and strips you of defenses no longer is as relevant. The cost is way lower when there isn't meaningful difference between social armor like bodysuits and actioneer, and samurai armor like full body armor or sleeping tiger. Before you were dropping enough soak for handguns to realistically 2 shot you on hit, now your likely not even losing edge generation when attacked.

3: The merging of firearm skills means its really easy for a face or mage to go from their handgun to a full AR or shotgun ahead of time. You can, in essence, 'plan for loud' at no opportunity cost as a social PC. A physical PC meanwhile can't invert this: They can use handguns and the like, but they don't automatically get their utility.

Riggers, Samurai, and Hackers lean towards physical stealth. Samurai for obvious reasons (Big guns and agility scores of 12 make you the lovechild of TF2's Heavy and Batman), Riggers likewise (Hard to palm a rotodrone under your shirt, better to sneak about with flyspies and then 'go in hot' with drones later). Hackers are physical stealth less because they physically sneak around and more because hackers work remotely, in spaces they control, and 'project' themselves without social cover to other spaces. So a hacker sitting in the back of the van or in a secure room inside a facility plugged into something they shouldn't be may as well carry a shotgun with full body armor for protection with like 5 smartgun platforms covering every door.

Faces use social stealth for obvious reasons. Mages likewise gravitate towards it because A: Charisma is a mage attribute while agility isn't even used by them for combat, and B: A big advantage of magic is you don't need big guns to do lots of damage and you have a samurai hiding in your pocket at all times in the form of spirits.

So this increase of power in social stealth without meaningful physical stealth power increases is another strong indicator we will be in a face+mage meta.

Finstersang

  • *
  • Omae
  • ***
  • Posts: 663
« Reply #16 on: <08-09-19/1421:35> »
Plus they no longer have to worry about being crippled by damage financially so they can actually save up.

And yes, repairs not inherently costing nuyen is a huge improvement too.

While y'all are patting each other on the back, I'd point out that you are forgetting history.  (Will you repeat it?)

The bankrupting repair rules were not in the Core Rule Book in 5e.
They didn't come out until Rigger 5.

I won't say it will happen in 6th, but there is still a chance of Catalyst [shafting] Riggers and their mothers again in 6th.

So, put a pin in those celebrations until we are sure.

XX edited by mod

Ah, the glorious dumbsterfire that was Rigger 5.0  ;D

Imagine waiting years for a supplement for your neglected favourite Archetype and the supplement actually makes it worse.
« Last Edit: <08-09-19/1631:37> by FastJack »
"Firing Line adds a ton of Perks that modify Attack and Defense ratings"

"Cool, does this mean that the whole AR/DR comparison has a bigger impact now?"

"Haha No :D"

dezmont

  • *
  • Chummer
  • **
  • Posts: 189
« Reply #17 on: <08-09-19/1457:57> »
If I recall the repair rules were in Run and Gun. A classic example of "Just because your idea is neat does not mean its good."

AJCarrington

  • *
  • Global Moderator
  • Ace Runner
  • *****
  • Posts: 2000
« Reply #18 on: <08-09-19/1622:53> »
While by no means is this always a "family-friendly" forum, please watch the language. I've gone in and edited a reported post that crossed the line.

SR Mod

topcat

  • *
  • Newb
  • *
  • Posts: 93
« Reply #19 on: <08-09-19/2136:24> »
The more I think about magicians at chargen, the more I lean toward A-Attributes, B-Skills, C-Race, D-Magic, E-Resources.  Sure, you start with 2 spells (Heal & Control Actions?), but you can still max your magic.  Set aside 30 karma from chargen for 6 more spells and you'll have them within ~2 weeks of training.

The overall karma savings are enormous compared to speccing Magic any higher.  Feels a bit trash to build like that, but the alternative is pretty awful.  You have to really be in love with those extra day one spells to go any other way.

This edition REALLY needs karmagen and/or pointgen as quickly as possible.

Hobbes

  • *
  • Catalyst Demo Team
  • Prime Runner
  • ***
  • Posts: 2887
« Reply #20 on: <08-09-19/2147:28> »
"The Meta" is still Mystic Adept or Mage.  Hasn't changed.

For a non-mage character?  A Stats, B Resources, C Skills, D Resonance, E Elf.  Be an Elf Face with a splash of Gunbunny and grow into the Hacker stuff post-chargen. 

Bone Density   4 Alpha
Muscle Replace   3 Used
Synaptic Booster  2 Used
Pheromones   4 Used

226000 Nuyen   5.25 Essence.  Touch on the slow side for a Gunbunny but you should be fast enough. 


topcat

  • *
  • Newb
  • *
  • Posts: 93
« Reply #21 on: <08-09-19/2156:34> »
"The Meta" is still Mystic Adept or Mage.  Hasn't changed.

What am I missing on MysAds?  I'm having trouble finding a reason to take them over a full Magician.

Hobbes

  • *
  • Catalyst Demo Team
  • Prime Runner
  • ***
  • Posts: 2887
« Reply #22 on: <08-09-19/2157:42> »
The more I think about magicians at chargen, the more I lean toward A-Attributes, B-Skills, C-Race, D-Magic, E-Resources.  Sure, you start with 2 spells (Heal & Control Actions?), but you can still max your magic.  Set aside 30 karma from chargen for 6 more spells and you'll have them within ~2 weeks of training.

The overall karma savings are enormous compared to speccing Magic any higher.  Feels a bit trash to build like that, but the alternative is pretty awful.  You have to really be in love with those extra day one spells to go any other way.

This edition REALLY needs karmagen and/or pointgen as quickly as possible.

A Magic, B Attributes, C Resources, D Skills, E Meta, Focused Concentration 3.  You only need 11 Skills points and to max out your two drain stats.  Buy a nice car and a Force 5 Power Foci.  Win at Magicrun. 

Hobbes

  • *
  • Catalyst Demo Team
  • Prime Runner
  • ***
  • Posts: 2887
« Reply #23 on: <08-09-19/2200:16> »
"The Meta" is still Mystic Adept or Mage.  Hasn't changed.

What am I missing on MysAds?  I'm having trouble finding a reason to take them over a full Magician.

Nothing much, the difference between a Mysad and a Mage isn't all that significant.  Which is why they're both at the top.

topcat

  • *
  • Newb
  • *
  • Posts: 93
« Reply #24 on: <08-09-19/2225:29> »
"The Meta" is still Mystic Adept or Mage.  Hasn't changed.

What am I missing on MysAds?  I'm having trouble finding a reason to take them over a full Magician.

Nothing much, the difference between a Mysad and a Mage isn't all that significant.  Which is why they're both at the top.

Maybe?  MysAds are definitely better than PhysAds, though, which will knock the PhysAds down my rankings.  A MysAd is a PhysAd that gets Astral Perception and access to sorcery/Conjuring/Enchanting at no additional cost.  Sure, you won't have any spells at the start, but those are cheap.

EDIT: MysAds can't get power points from initiating, they have to buy magic up, so PhysAds do still have a place, but it's not at chargen.
« Last Edit: <08-09-19/2303:48> by topcat »

Shinobi Killfist

  • *
  • Prime Runner
  • *****
  • Posts: 2602
« Reply #25 on: <08-09-19/2255:25> »
The more I think about magicians at chargen, the more I lean toward A-Attributes, B-Skills, C-Race, D-Magic, E-Resources.  Sure, you start with 2 spells (Heal & Control Actions?), but you can still max your magic.  Set aside 30 karma from chargen for 6 more spells and you'll have them within ~2 weeks of training.

The overall karma savings are enormous compared to speccing Magic any higher.  Feels a bit trash to build like that, but the alternative is pretty awful.  You have to really be in love with those extra day one spells to go any other way.

This edition REALLY needs karmagen and/or pointgen as quickly as possible.

Same. Spells I’d go improved attribute and an attack. Rely on summoning a bit but have rock solid defense your first run or two. 8 attribute points especially when the next step is 16 is rough. Doable as a meta and a decent racial priority.

C race the main question is do you want to go edge or meta. I hate playing meta races but getting a 8 charisma for a shaman or a 9 body hermetic is pretty solid. Probably better than 6 edge. But I really don’t know how important starting at a high edge is yet.

Jimmy_Pvish

  • *
  • Newb
  • *
  • Posts: 75
« Reply #26 on: <08-09-19/2353:51> »
Set aside 30 karma from chargen for 6 more spells and you'll have them within ~2 weeks of training.
Wait, you can save up karma from chagen to be used in game? :o
« Last Edit: <08-10-19/0015:00> by Jimmy_Pvish »

Typhus

  • *
  • Omae
  • ***
  • Posts: 288
« Reply #27 on: <08-10-19/0224:56> »
Strictly with RAW though, you can't bond with that focus at chargen.  It technically doesn't say you are forbidden, but the Karma section only specifies Atts, Skills, Qualities and Resources as the spends.

Michael Chandra

  • *
  • Catalyst Demo Team
  • Prime Runner
  • ***
  • Posts: 9679
  • Question-slicing ninja
« Reply #28 on: <08-10-19/0431:09> »
Set aside 30 karma from chargen for 6 more spells and you'll have them within ~2 weeks of training.
Wait, you can save up karma from chagen to be used in game? :o
Not specified right now. So I doubt the clarified rules will let you carry massive amounts over.
How am I not part of the forum?? O_O I am both active and angry!