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So has the release of the core book been pushed back?

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Michael Chandra

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« Reply #30 on: (10:57:46/08-15-19) »
I am literally uncapable of commenting on debates where I know there's a good fix in progress, because it's all locked down under strict NDA. Why? Because that's what the NDA is. Not 'hey I'm not allowed to review it', but 'ANY information you obtain through the private channels that is not yet publicly released, is strictly under NDA'. I can't go 'hey X is in errata process' because I am not authorised to do so. The NDA is preventing me from saying GOOD things.
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Banshee

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« Reply #31 on: (11:02:01/08-15-19) »
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So I would say a claim of "active attempts at blocking criticism" is purely false

And fair enough at that, I am no insider.  I take you at your word, and retract the notion.

However, with absence of information, and a dog of a product, and reviewers clearly hedging their commentary in some corners, it can come across that way.

I can also see that is also a fair statement
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« Reply #32 on: (13:53:25/08-15-19) »
The issue I have with all this NDA talk is that we have already had a limited public release (GenCon), but CGL is still holding the NDA leash on all the people who got early access to, or are currently working on, the product. There are too many posts of "Things are happening, but I can't talk about it". These posts do absolutely nothing to build customer confidence.

I got the CRB from GenCon, and after reading it through, I need to see action taken to fix whats in there. Not be told, see it. Telling me you're working on it means nothing when there is no transparency. Am I going to get an updated PDF when it goes on the website? Will I be able to exchange my bad physical copy of the CRB for a revised one? Am I stuck with the bad copy of the book and a 9 page errata (with more to come)?

And this isn't a jab at the writers or errata team. I can only assume you all are working to the best of your abilities. This is aimed at CGL corporate. They need to fix this, and they need to be up front, open, and honest about it. And they need to do this sooner than later.

Gamerdad46

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« Reply #33 on: (14:43:47/08-15-19) »
I know that sometimes when working on something like this saying too much can be damaging. But saying too little can be worse. From what I can see here there was some type of announcement at GenCon that the book was going to be pushed back. Why isn't there a note up on the site? I don't need every last little detail, just a little clarity from the source as to what is going on.

I'm not entitled to this of course. I know I'm just a drop in the bucket when it comes to sales of the book. And why should it bother me so much? It's just a book. Something about a game I won't be running for a few months anyway.

Well part of it is that I'm just a nerdy old man who wants to read a new version of a game I've been struggling to get off the ground with my group for years. And when I mean years I mean 30 years. While I can understand the core audience for the system might be a bit put off by the changes, I myself find them as a gateway to get this game off the ground. I've been running and playing various games for 30+ years and owned the OG CRB back when it was first released. I love the setting but the game was just too intimidating for anyone I've been running games for. This version seems to alleviate some of those concerns.

The other part of it is simply, I'm a customer. I want to buy their product. Others have purchased it, although it was limited, and the thought of that drives me up a wall. If no one had it I would probably let the whole thing slide. But that's not the case. If you were privileged enough to take a trip to GenCon you had the opportunity to purchase the book. Why purchase a book that has so much errata, which they could potentially be working to fix? I've played with errata for years, doesn't bother me. While I'd love the book to come out error free, it's just not that big a deal to me.

All that aside, there is a simple solution to the fans who would like to have it now. I'm sure there is a massive PDF just sitting around waiting to be put on sale. A PDF that you could correct and adjust for customers when updated with the errata. Release it. I'll buy that and the physical copy when available. I may be simplifying it a bit, but I'm not expecting by that much. You could be earning on the release right now, just put it out there.

Likely I'm just ranting for no reason and what will happen will happen. I'm sure I'll get over it. But I can't pretend that I'm not a bit annoyed. 

Banshee

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« Reply #34 on: (14:54:37/08-15-19) »
Ok, here is the most official thing I can tell you (based on what has been confirmed by Jason Hardy directly to me)

PDF's will be updated and if you purchased one you will get those updates for free as they are released ... I just don't know the anticipated release schedule.

Physical copies of the gencon release ... don't know about getting it replaced but I doubt it

as for NDA ... we can all talk openly about what is in the book and even say that yes we are working on it if it's a known issue or clarify it when we know the answer, but we can't divulge is what the solutions to the problems we are submitting are but that is only because we don't know if they will be approved and made official so we can't promote any kind of false information just because we say one thing and it gets shot down.

all of you other complaints would need addresses directly to CGL and I can't help you there
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Gamerdad46

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« Reply #35 on: (15:04:31/08-15-19) »
Hey, I'm not slamming anyone here. Like I said I might be a bit annoyed, but I'm not mad or anything.

I thank you for everything you've been able to share. I've had a rough few weeks with some medical stuff going on and just kind of had my head somewhat fixated on the release. It was something I was looking forward to and having it kind of pulled away without any official statement put me out a bit.

I apologize if I was out of line, just wanted to express my frustration with a group of folks who might understand it a bit, and color my replies with something more than "I want it NOW". Which is basically all it comes down to anyway. Gaming is my big escape, even just reading through a new sourcebook. It puts all these medical issues I've been having on hold for a bit. I just bought the Beginner's Box so I could read through it and was hoping to put the CRB through it's paces. 

Banshee

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« Reply #36 on: (15:07:33/08-15-19) »
Hey, I'm not slamming anyone here. Like I said I might be a bit annoyed, but I'm not mad or anything.

I thank you for everything you've been able to share. I've had a rough few weeks with some medical stuff going on and just kind of had my head somewhat fixated on the release. It was something I was looking forward to and having it kind of pulled away without any official statement put me out a bit.

I apologize if I was out of line, just wanted to express my frustration with a group of folks who might understand it a bit, and color my replies with something more than "I want it NOW". Which is basically all it comes down to anyway. Gaming is my big escape, even just reading through a new sourcebook. It puts all these medical issues I've been having on hold for a bit. I just bought the Beginner's Box so I could read through it and was hoping to put the CRB through it's paces.

All good by me, my response was just more of general statement for everyone's benefit ... and certainly understand the disappointment as well
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Marcus

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« Reply #37 on: (15:42:56/08-15-19) »
I am literally uncapable of commenting on debates where I know there's a good fix in progress, because it's all locked down under strict NDA. Why? Because that's what the NDA is. Not 'hey I'm not allowed to review it', but 'ANY information you obtain through the private channels that is not yet publicly released, is strictly under NDA'. I can't go 'hey X is in errata process' because I am not authorised to do so. The NDA is preventing me from saying GOOD things.

Isn't that song getting old by now even for you Chandra? First it was I can't tell you about all the good stuff in the CRB b/c of NDA. Now I can't tell how awesome all the fixes for the mess that is the CRB b/c of NDA. It just starts sounding very familiar Chandra.
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Typhus

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« Reply #38 on: (15:46:04/08-15-19) »
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Ok, here is the most official thing I can tell you (based on what has been confirmed by Jason Hardy directly to me)

This helps me out a bit.  It would be nice if Mr Hardy would step onto some platform or another to address this so it's not hidden away on a forum thread as the only place the info lives. 

At least now I can let people know corrections will be applied to digital purchases, but to hold off on the paper version.  Thank you, Banshee.  I appreciate your extra effort.

Typhus

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« Reply #39 on: (16:05:04/08-15-19) »
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The NDA is preventing me from saying GOOD things.

I hope that has been pointed out to the powers that be, but I don't expect any intel on that.  Another lousy position they've put you in.  Most unfair all around.  Even case by case would be something. 

A general statement by Mr Hardy would go a long way to helping the upset that's milling around.  Moreso if there was any sense of a mea culpa in it.  It would also put all the people here in a better spot, I would hope. 

As for me contacting CGL, while I may have ascertained his email address awhile ago, I don't have any faith that rando complaino guy from the interwebz is likely to mean more than hearing it from those who work with him in some capacity.  I'll file that away under "maybe later".

Bamce

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« Reply #40 on: (19:54:33/08-15-19) »
This has been a nightmare.

When I was at gencon and purchased a copy of the book (dear god not for me, but for someone who I was shipping it back to), I was handed one of these pdf codes. When I asked the poor lady behind the counter when they would be availible she said that it was.

Que me coming back the next day (maybe she had meant that evening after the con closed) with the store page on my phone to ask “hey whats up”? And to get an answer from someone who may have been Mr Hardy himself, (not directly to me as he was a few feet away but making contact and interacting with me as I asked someone else about it) that it would be up later.

I then returned on the next day, having heard that they had sold out of the core book. Being a mod over on the subreddit I wanted to double check in person so i could answer folks directly on the sub. They indeed were out. The nice cgl guy that was there seemed to take offense to my question of “are you guys out of the non crazy priced editions”. To which I wish I had the ability to throw open a book and point at the broken technomancer rpegen I had discovered in a casual 5 minute flip through the book (it has two echos listed as complex forms and no hacking skill) and get an actual answer.

Then, to my shock and horror I find out that a pdf of the book has leaked all over the internet.

And even still, they havnt at least put the pdf up for sale.

Cgl, my dudes, your giving the pdf away for free from gencon. Your pdf has leaked all over the internet. At least have an option for people to buy it from you. People want the book and when they hear (cause they are gonna hear) about the situarion they are either going to give up on buying it, or get it for free. You are missing the best possible window for selling this product.

I will point out that

pathfinder 2 was there as its big release. The srd is up for it. The pdf is up for sale.

The cyberpunk jumpstart kit, was there. The pdf is up for sale. If you bought the box they gave you (in addition) a coupon for an 8$ pdf of the stuff (discounted down from the 15 it is normally), a syrinscape code for a soundtrack, and an extra d10. (And a con badge tag but who cares about those)

If the number I heard thrown around is correct cgl brough 800~850 copies (core reg book) to a 60,000 person convention. They sold out before I got there on saturday.

I was excited about the prospect of having some day 1 errata. Praise dunklezhan to whomever got that done. (I was not given access through errata team to anything beforehand) i was excited to give them some credit.


But this?

Im not angry, just disappointed.

Michael Chandra

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« Reply #41 on: (03:08:41/08-16-19) »
It's rather distressing that after repeated deliberate NDA violations and partial leaks taking place over the past months, now someone decided to fully leak the book. No matter how much one hates SR6, they should have realised leaking the PDF (without even the SHRED of decency to wait until official release) is absolutely not cool and will only cause CGL to lock things down further in the future, pretty much guaranteeing that no open beta will ever take place. It's also a real shame that there's people on reddit that seem to love posting "yeah it can be 'found' *winkwinknudgenudge*". Anyone who cares about Shadowrun at all should know better.
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penllawen

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« Reply #42 on: (05:10:38/08-16-19) »
Ok, here is the most official thing I can tell you (based on what has been confirmed by Jason Hardy directly to me)
Thanks for this, Banshee.

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PDF's will be updated and if you purchased one you will get those updates for free as they are released ... I just don't know the anticipated release schedule.
OK! So this is Actual Real Good News in my book. Apart from anything else, from the prevalence of "I can't talk about that, it's under NDA" responses on here, it looks like the current errata process for 6e CRB is pretty extensive. Having to go back and forth between a book and an erata is a pain in the arse that gets significantly more painful as the errata grows. Fingers crossed the book releases in a better state for this delay.

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Physical copies of the gencon release ... don't know about getting it replaced but I doubt it
On the other hand, ouch. I wonder how many of those people wouldn't have dropped $50-200 if they'd know this was going to happen.

I also don't think the near-total radio silence from Catalyst is helpful here. I don't see a lot of downsides to just being a little bit more open with folks about what's going on.

topcat

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« Reply #43 on: (10:24:48/08-16-19) »
It's rather distressing that after repeated deliberate NDA violations and partial leaks taking place over the past months, now someone decided to fully leak the book. No matter how much one hates SR6, they should have realised leaking the PDF (without even the SHRED of decency to wait until official release) is absolutely not cool and will only cause CGL to lock things down further in the future, pretty much guaranteeing that no open beta will ever take place. It's also a real shame that there's people on reddit that seem to love posting "yeah it can be 'found' *winkwinknudgenudge*". Anyone who cares about Shadowrun at all should know better.

If you saw the code, you'd know just how badly CGL screwed up by using it.  They had literally one code, it was used for everyone, and it wasn't tied to a purchase.  People are awful and the assumption should always be that they'll steal when they can.  If they'd just used a key generator and watermarked the copies normally through DTRPG, this isn't (as bad of) an issue.

Michael Chandra

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« Reply #44 on: (11:09:42/08-16-19) »
This is why we can't have nice things. :-[
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