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[SR6] Power Points, Magic and Mystical Adepts

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Xenon

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« on: (07:56:25/08-06-19) »
This post is about Mystical Adepts, the discussion about Physical Adepts can be found here:
https://forums.shadowruntabletop.com/index.php?topic=29744.0



During character generation 1 point of unadjusted magic from the Magic or Resonance priority seem to give a Mystical Adept 1 free Power Point or 2 free Spells.

p. 66
"They must split their Magic between spells and adept powers. They first purchase adept powers up to a maximum of their Magic attribute then multiply the remaining Magic by 2 to determine their starting number of spell choices. Again, this uses the Magic value in the Priority table, not as adjusted with Karma or adjustment points."

And again later reinforced here:

p. 158
"At character creation, mystic adepts divide their Magic rating between spells and power points. They get 1 power point for each point of Magic dedicated to the adept side, and spells equal to the amount of Magic dedicated to being a mage x 2."

It seem as if adjusting Magic to a higher value (due to for example spending Adjustment Points or Karma on Magic) does not yield any extra free Power Points or Spells.

If your essence is reduced below any whole integer then magic is also reduced. Book does not mention anything about the effects of dropping your current magic rating to zero. And it also does not say anything about reducing your maximum magic rating. That no matter how much augmentations you get you can always increase your magic rating to 6 (+  Initiation Grade) by spending Karma. It also seem as if adjusting Magic to a lower value (due to for example buying Augmentations during character generation) don't mean you lose any of your free Power Points or free Spells you got from your Magic and Resonance priority selection.



So how can we gain more Power Points or Spells beyond the free Power Points and Spells we get from Magic or Resonance priority during chargen?

Step four on p. 66 Spend Customization Karma list four ways you are allowed to spend your Customization Karma:

1. Skill advancement
2. Attribute advancement
3. Spending karma on resources
4. Additional qualities.

It also point to the table on p. 68 which also list advancement costs for New spells, New complex forms, Initiation and Submersion; however, as I read it during chargen you are limited to Skills, Attributes, Resources and Qualities. You can only spend karma on new spells, complex forms, initiation and submersion post chargen.

The only way to gain a new spell, New Spells (p. 70), is to get hold of the a formula, have a magical lodge, time to spend and 5 karma to spare. There does not seem to be an upper limit to the amount of spells you can learn (you are only limited by resources, time and karma).

The only way to gain a new Power Point you need to Initiate and select Power Point. There does not seem to be an upper limit to the amount of power points you can gain (but you can only pick one each time you initiate).



If I read this correctly you should probably never, as a Mystic Adept, spend Magic rating from Magic and Resources on free spells over free Power Points, instead buy most of your spells for 5 karma each once chargen is done. While magic is used for the mystic side of mystic adepts it also seem more important for a Mystic Adept to have a high magic rating from Magic or Resonance rather than from adjustment points and customization karma (compared to Full Magicians, Aspected Magicians and Physical Adepts) as this is the only way for a Mystic Adept of ever gaining Power Points (except for post chargen Initiation).

Drawbacks of getting augmentations is that spells depend on magic rating and also that it gets harder to land healing and increasing spells on you (which mean it will probably hurt a mystic adept more than / not benefit a mystic adept as much than as / for example a physical adept), but in this edition it does not seem as if you lose Power Points by getting augmentations which is interesting...
« Last Edit: (07:58:33/08-06-19) by Xenon »

Lormyr

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« Reply #1 on: (08:12:30/08-06-19) »
I think we can all agree that mystic adepts needed knocked down a peg from their 5e stool. Without the ability to gain extra power points or spells at chargen outside of their priority selection the archetype really suffers though.

Once again, it really should be the final attribute (6) that determines resources for all the awakened characters.

Xenon

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« Reply #2 on: (09:06:00/08-06-19) »
For mystic adepts (and magicians and aspected magicians) the final magic score is a lot more useful than it is for physical adepts, which mean they will probably want to leave chargen with magic 6 no matter how many (or few) free spells they get from this.

The system as designed works pretty well from what I can tell.


Compared between mystic adepts and full/aspected magicians a mystic adept can only gain power points via initiation (which at a minimum take 1 month) which probably mean mystic adepts value Magic and Resonance priority higher than full/aspected magicians do (even if all three of them often will probablu want to combine both metatype and Magic or Resonance to walk out of chargen with 6 magic).

From a strict Karma point of view each point of magic (as well as other attributes or skills) are worth 5 karma x new rank while a spell is only worth a fixed cost of 5 karma which mean Metatype priority (as well as Attributes priority and Skills priority) give you more bang for the buck (stronger long term) while Magic and Resonance priority give you more spells directly out of chargen (stronger short term).

If you as a Mystic Adept (or Full Magician) plan on having 6 Magic when you leave chargen you basically only have four options:

1. Priority 'cost' 5: Magic D + Metatype C (with 1 magic worth of spells/powers and 4 adjustment points to spare = edge 5)
2. Priority 'cost' 5: Magic C + Metatype D (with 2 magic worth of spells/powers and no adjustment points to spare = edge 1)
3. Priority 'cost' 6: Magic B + Metatype D (with 3 magic worth of spells/powers and 1 adjustment point to spare = edge 2)
4. Priority 'cost' 7: Magic A + Metatype D (with 4 magic worth of spells/powers and 2 adjustment points to spare = edge 3)

The first option 'cost' as little priority cost as the second option, but if all left-over adjustment points go into edge then it is 'worth' 60 karma more... ;-)

If one full magician go option 2 spend karma to buy edge from 1 to 5 then another full magician going with option 1 would have enough karma to have the same edge plus magic, but a total of 10(!) spells more than the first magician.

For full magicians I think it will be more beneficial to have as few spells as you think you can get away with during chargen and instead walk out of chargen with higher skill- and attribute ratings (including but not limited to the magic attribute).


For a mystic adept, however, you can't just buy power points for 5 karma post chargen. For a mystic adept I think you might be willing to go with a higher Magic or Resonance priority for no other reason than because power points are so much harder to come by post chargen (at least when compared to spells).

In this edition power points come at a rather high price for the mystic adept (which I think is fine, in SR5 mystic adepts were basically full magicians++ where the only drawback was that they had to pay 5 karma for astral perception and could never use astral projection).

Stainless Steel Devil Rat

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« Reply #3 on: (09:27:42/08-06-19) »
I'm actually a fan of the idea that a magician is limited to the magic priority selection and may not spend karma on more spells/power points/etc.

Makes it cease to be a no-brainer about putting Attributes as A.
RPG mechanics exist to give structure and consistency to the game world, true, but at the end of the day, youíre fighting dragons with algebra and random number generators.

Lormyr

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« Reply #4 on: (09:44:48/08-06-19) »
For full magicians I think it will be more beneficial to have as few spells as you think you can get away with during chargen and instead walk out of chargen with higher skill- and attribute ratings (including but not limited to the magic attribute).

Absolutely. The math is no brainer. The sentiment might even be true for mystic adepts depending on what sort of build you are aiming for.

For a mystic adept, however, you can't just buy power points for 5 karma post chargen.

Nor should you be able too, that is way too good. I have no idea how that made it through discussion. However, there should be an option at char gen to increase your power points. 5 per for adept and 10 per for mystic adept would not be unreasonable.

In this edition power points come at a rather high price for the mystic adept (which I think is fine, in SR5 mystic adepts were basically full magicians++ where the only drawback was that they had to pay 5 karma for astral perception and could never use astral projection).

Post chargen the cost is the same (initiation only), but the cost is much steeper at chargen. I personally do not care for the way magic at chargen was handled at all, so I am quite biased about it. I think there was better mechanical ways to handle lowering the magic power curve than removing resources.

Shinobi Killfist

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« Reply #5 on: (10:08:40/08-06-19) »
I'm actually a fan of the idea that a magician is limited to the magic priority selection and may not spend karma on more spells/power points/etc.

Makes it cease to be a no-brainer about putting Attributes as A.

Itís still a no brainer to go a attributes and d magic for full mages adepts though just get a kick in the nuts by it. You just look lame at spell casting for a run or 3. This entire priority system is a train wreck.

Xenon

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« Reply #6 on: (10:16:21/08-06-19) »
...adepts though just get a kick in the nuts by it
To be fair, as a Mystic Adept you can go full Mystic and pick the exact same priorities as a Full Magician and get the exact same attributes, skills, and spells as a Full Magician. The only difference being that a Full magician get Astral Perception and Projection for free while the Mystic Adept have the option to pick up Power Points (including Astral Perception but not Astral Projection) during Initiation once the game starts.

Xenon

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« Reply #7 on: (08:30:59/08-10-19) »
...and a Mystical Adept that focus 100% on the Adept side during chargen will be identical to a Physical Adept. The only difference during chargen is that the Mystical Adept is allowed to spend skill points Sorcery/Conjuring/Enchanting and is allowed to trade power points for spells or rituals.

Post chargen the advantage of playing a Mystical Adept is that they have the option to spend Karma on Sorcery/Conjuring/Enchanting/Rituals/Spells while the advantage of playing a Physical Adept is that they gain a free power point each time they raise their Magic attribute.

Xenon

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« Reply #8 on: (13:24:49/08-12-19) »
Are there any limitation on how many or how powerful Qi Focus you can buy or activate at the same time??
Or is it perhaps only a matter of Resources and Karma that set the boundaries....?

Because in that case you can also buy them at a rate of 8 karma and 12,000• per power point ;-)

Are you maybe even allowed to use customization karma in order to bind a focus directly during chargen...?



OK, found it:

You can’t bond more foci than your Magic attribute, and the maximum Force of all your bonded foci can’t exceed your Magic x 5.
« Last Edit: (13:30:47/08-12-19) by Xenon »