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Those of you w/ the core rulebook - help me make a badass!

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Stainless Steel Devil Rat

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« Reply #60 on: <08-16-19/0027:53> »
Yes, that'd be there levels of the augmentation.
RPG mechanics exist to give structure and consistency to the game world, true, but at the end of the day, you’re fighting dragons with algebra and random number generators.

Moonrunner

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« Reply #61 on: <08-16-19/0032:46> »
So, if my augmentations cost 5.5 in Essence and I start with 6 Essence and the Magic stat started at 1 I would have a Magic of 0, wouldn't I? I think the core rulebook states for every integer of Essence loss from Augmentations your Magic goes down by 1.  Would this keep this character from being to utilize the passive Physical Adept abilities he has?

Stainless Steel Devil Rat

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« Reply #62 on: <08-16-19/0100:45> »
Right.. so dropping from 6.0 essence to 5.9 costs 1 point of Magic.  5.0 to 4.9 a 2nd point.  4.0 to 3.9 a 3rd point. 3.0 to 2.9 is your 4th point of magic gone. 2.0 to 1.9 is 5 points of magic.  And 1.0 to 0.9 means you have no magic left at all even if you bought up to 6.

That's way too much cyber and bioware for a magician.  If you want that much cyber, just play a mundane to begin with :)
« Last Edit: <08-16-19/0103:03> by Stainless Steel Devil Rat »
RPG mechanics exist to give structure and consistency to the game world, true, but at the end of the day, you’re fighting dragons with algebra and random number generators.

Moonrunner

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« Reply #63 on: <08-16-19/0143:12> »
Right.. so dropping from 6.0 essence to 5.9 costs 1 point of Magic.  5.0 to 4.9 a 2nd point.  4.0 to 3.9 a 3rd point. 3.0 to 2.9 is your 4th point of magic gone. 2.0 to 1.9 is 5 points of magic.  And 1.0 to 0.9 means you have no magic left at all even if you bought up to 6.

That's way too much cyber and bioware for a magician.  If you want that much cyber, just play a mundane to begin with :)

Well, the build that Hobbes made is a Physical Adept so does that mean with the Bioware he added in the build taking his Magic Rating to 0 he cannot use any of his Adept abilities at all? All the abilities he purchased are passive.

Stainless Steel Devil Rat

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« Reply #64 on: <08-16-19/0149:38> »
What happens if your Magic attribute hits 0 is another thing that was left unsaid.

In prior editions, you ceased being a magician and forever lost magical ability. This was called "burning out".  If you do reading on Shadowrun lore, you may find references to burning out or the path of the burnout.  That's referencing magicians that take more and more cyber, which costs them more and more their magical ability.  They keep taking more to compensate for dwindling magical capability...

I wouldn't bet against this being the case for 6we as well once this omission is ruled upon. The character that Hobbes posted is exploiting the omission that Adepts lose Power Points as well whenever they lose Magic.  Again, that's how it was, and I wouldn't bet that it will stay omitted for long in 6we either.  Of course, new editions are not previous editions.. so there's the potential that maybe you'll be able to raise a 0 Magic back up to 1 via karma.  If that does prove to be the case: I couldn't guess as to whether you'd still be able to use magic before raising back up to 1, though.
« Last Edit: <08-16-19/0154:39> by Stainless Steel Devil Rat »
RPG mechanics exist to give structure and consistency to the game world, true, but at the end of the day, you’re fighting dragons with algebra and random number generators.

Michael Chandra

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« Reply #65 on: <08-16-19/0301:41> »
In SR5, you only burnt out at 0 Maximum Magic, at 0 Magic you instead temporarily lost access until you raised to 1 again. But yeah, it depends on the edition.

Essence-wise:
Bone Density   4  alpha = 0.3 * 4 * 0.8 = 0.96
Muscle Replace   4  Used = 0.7 * 4 * 1.1 = 3.08 essence
Synap   3  Used = 0.5 * 3 * 1.1 = 1.65 essence
That's indeed 5.69 used, 0.31 left.

(Hey cool, MR went down from 1 to 0.7.)
How am I not part of the forum?? O_O I am both active and angry!

Moonrunner

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« Reply #66 on: <08-16-19/2024:30> »
So, do you all feel like this is not a wise character to play right now because it is taking advantage of holes in the rules that will likely very soon get nerfed? It seems like the Biotech this character is running around with is likely exploiting a loophole in the rules about Essence and power pt loss.

If so, would anyone be so kind as to do a second run at this character at making it legal per how we feel the rules will shape out?

Our campaign began last Tuesday and this is the character I am currently playing in the game.  I want to ensure I am not breaking anything in the rules.

Stainless Steel Devil Rat

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« Reply #67 on: <08-16-19/2048:02> »
Well... you're legal for now... by the letter if not by the spirit.  And who knows how long it'll be before errata is formally published, so you could be playing the character for so long that by then, the GM may just hand-waive it and grandfather your character in.  That's a conversation for you to have with the GM rather than a bunch of anonymous forum creeps :D

But as far as advice goes... It'd certainly be easier/simpler if you don't get any augmentations at all and focus entirely on magic. But if you like the idea of mixing tech and magic, I wouldn't spend more than 1.0 essence on a magic character.  Without spending on a full essence-load's worth of cyber and bio, you can probably re-pick your priority array and get more of something else in exchange for depressing resources.  All in all... it'd be rebuilding the character from scratch.

A problem I forsee with this is nothing is going to compare to a character that combines the best of two directions that weren't ever meant to combine seamlessly.  You've got all the strengths of an adept AND a street sam.  So... now that you've been playing it it's going to be like having to play a level 1 in D&D after having been playing a level 5 or 10.  It's not in any way balanced to combine all that cyberware with no loss of magic, which is why it's a loophole that will likely not remain open.
RPG mechanics exist to give structure and consistency to the game world, true, but at the end of the day, you’re fighting dragons with algebra and random number generators.

Moonrunner

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« Reply #68 on: <08-16-19/2108:48> »
The good thing is we just started so we have only played one session so far and do not play again till next Tuesday.  We did not even have a combat encounter the entire first session.

Would anyone be willing to take what Hobbes has and re-create it to make it what we think is going to be game legal once the devs get out the errata and all? I would be forever in your debt.  This game is not n00b friendly at all.  I am not sure how much karma Hobbes spent on Bioware but it seems like the consensus believe that the Bioware he purchased will be deemed by the devs to be incompatible with the Magic nature of a Physical Adept once these things are ruled on in the near future.

Hobbes

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« Reply #69 on: <08-16-19/2121:43> »
Well... you're legal for now... by the letter if not by the spirit.

I build characters with the RAW I have, not the RAW I want.    :P

Stainless Steel Devil Rat

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« Reply #70 on: <08-16-19/2123:24> »
Care to replicate your effort in a way that's not likely to end up being invalidated? :D
RPG mechanics exist to give structure and consistency to the game world, true, but at the end of the day, you’re fighting dragons with algebra and random number generators.

Moonrunner

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« Reply #71 on: <08-16-19/2127:01> »
Well... you're legal for now... by the letter if not by the spirit.

I build characters with the RAW I have, not the RAW I want.    :P

And you build amazing characters as well.  I am very thankful for this build.  It is awesome.  Do you have any amazing Weapons Specialist builds also?

We are simply looking at trying to tweak the build a bit in case it gets nerfed by the devs so I will also have a versin I can play at that point that is a legal build.

Stainless Steel Devil Rat

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« Reply #72 on: <08-16-19/2142:25> »
Well, since the character is already using so little magic, the easiest/simplest thing to do is just swap magic and metatype priority selections.

You'll lose the magic attribute and the adept powers, but you'll gain 3 more attribute points to put towards edge and/or charisma (your agility is already maxed.  You're playing an elf.. right?)
With no magic, you don't need (indeed can't have) the mentor spirit quality, so that's 10 karma to spend elsewhere as well.
RPG mechanics exist to give structure and consistency to the game world, true, but at the end of the day, you’re fighting dragons with algebra and random number generators.

Hobbes

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« Reply #73 on: <08-16-19/2154:33> »
If the Errata team decides to go with 5th edition style burn out rules the character is still legal.  Max Magic never hits 0.

If the Errata team decides that Power Points can go negative, the character loses the one Adept Power.  Never happened in any other edition though.

If the Errata team decides to re-define Max Magic in some way, the character could become a total burn out.

If the Errata team decides to define Burn out as Magic (not Max Magic) as 0, then the character would burn out.  Similar to editions 1 through 4.

If the Errata team decides to define a specific order of operations for character generation, then the character could burn-out or lose the Adept Power in some way.  But the order of Magic --> Install 'ware --> Increase Magic has always been left to the player's benefit. 

The Errata team could come up with something completely novel regarding burn-outs that I have no way of foreseeing.

If the burn out rules from 5th are copy/pasted into 6th, the character is legal and that seems as safe a bet as any, while remaining 6th edition rules legal as well.

Way too hard for me to guess what the rules will be after the Errata and Mission FAQs are completed, unfortunately.  And as you pointed out, it could be a long time before the Errata gets approved and released.  Burn-outs could have their own source book by  then.  Or at least their own path  :)  (again). 

If char gen rules get Errata'd then people will have to re-make characters.  Hopefully the Errata team is sensitive to that.

Hobbes

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« Reply #74 on: <08-16-19/2201:19> »
Well, since the character is already using so little magic, the easiest/simplest thing to do is just swap magic and metatype priority selections.

You'll lose the magic attribute and the adept powers, but you'll gain 3 more attribute points to put towards edge and/or charisma (your agility is already maxed.  You're playing an elf.. right?)
With no magic, you don't need (indeed can't have) the mentor spirit quality, so that's 10 karma to spend elsewhere as well.

Exactly.  Loose a little Magic, gain a some Attributes (Edge and/or Charisma).  I've said it in other threads, the lack of burn-out rules and the way the Power Points currently work at char gen are really not exploitable to a meaningful degree.  You give up good stuff to get good stuff and it's a fairly reasonable trade off.  All IMO though.