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[6E] errata released.

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penllawen

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« Reply #120 on: <08-17-19/1856:41> »
Are you suggesting stim patches don't help against Drain? Because I think they do.

SR5e, pg 278

"Drain damage, regardless of whether it is Stun or Physical damage, cannot be healed by any means other than the natural properties of the body—that means no magical healing and no medkits."

SR5e, pg 441

"Stim patch: This patch removes a number of boxes of Stun damage equal to its Rating. This effect lasts for (Rating x 10) minutes—after that period of time, the patient takes (Rating + 1) unresisted Stun damage (which may be well become physical overflow by that point)."

The first paragraph doesn't mention slap patches, the second paragraph doesn't describe stim patches as "healing". I would characterise stim patches as temporarily removing the effects of damage without actually fixing it. I don't see why that means they wouldn't work (temporarily) on Stun Drain damage.

KatoHearts

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« Reply #121 on: <08-17-19/1959:10> »
Mission's errata has them remove drain temporarily. If I recall correctly you end up with one more drain than you started with. Of course, you can't rest while you're on a stim patch as well.

markelphoenix

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« Reply #122 on: <08-18-19/2155:57> »
Any word on Errata on the dumpster fire that is 6e Priority system? Specifically how Magic is handled?

Michael Chandra

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« Reply #123 on: <08-18-19/2342:16> »
Sorry but unless JM Hardy personally clears it, I don't think anyone is authorised to mention anything not officially released yet on the English side. German errata team Idunno but I know from SR5 they tend to just do their own thing so can't be used as reliable English source.
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PiXeL01

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« Reply #124 on: <08-19-19/0241:13> »
It’s being worked on.
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Finstersang

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« Reply #125 on: <08-19-19/0748:26> »
Since the identified problems/ambiguities of Magic in Character Creation and Character Progression are intertwined, I think itīs a good idea to bring them all together. Hereīs what I extrapolated from the discussions in the forum so far, with my personal, subjective take on the matter in parentheses.

  • Do Phyiscal Adepts get additional Power Points when increasing their Magic Attribute with Special Attribute Points? (Personal take: Yes, they should. It worked well in 5th Edition, and while 4th Edition didnīt have a Priority System, there is an important consistency: Adept Power Points = Magic Attribute. Itīs easy to remember, easy to backtrack and doesnīt turn Special Attribute points into a mechanical trap for Adepts. In longer campaigns, there will often be moments where (new) players or GMs want to make adjustments to a character or just want to "check up" if everything is alright about a char. If increasing Magic through Special Attribute Points doesnīt grant Power Points while Karma does, youīll always have to remember that there might by a couple of "dead" Points in your Magic Attribute that donīt give you additional powers because you (foolishly) decided to use your Special Attribute Points on your Magic Attribute.)
  • See above, but for MysAds? (Personal take: For consistency, do it just the same as Physical Adepts, + the additional Karma cost for "unlocking" the Power Point. I do think that 5 Karma per Power point is a bit low, though. Personally, I wouldnīt even mind if the rules from 4th Edition come back that forced Mystical Adepts to "split" their Magic Attribute between Adept stuff and Magician stuff. Since there are no flexible spell ratings anymore, this would be a lot more viable in 6th Edition than it was in 4th Edition.)
  • Do Magicians get additional spells when raising their Magic Attribute with Special Attribute points? (Personal take: Indifferent. If I understand it right, the current RAW is basically like 5th Edition in this regard, just written less obvious.)
  • Can Magicians buy additional spells with Karma during Character generation? (Personal take: Yes, they should.)
  • Burning out, part 1: Do Adepts and Mystical Adepts lose Power Points when lowering their Magic Attribute when burning out?
     (Personal take: Holy shit, yes! Is this even in question?!)
  • Burning out, part 2: Does it reduce your maximum Magic Attribute? (Personal take: Yes, it should. Else, burning out is just a temporary dip in your Magical Potential that can easily be bought back with karma).
  • Wait a minute, is there even such a thing as a maximum Magic Attribute? ( Erm. Yeah, I think I saw it popping up somewhere, donīt know if thatīs really (not) in the RAW or if its just an oversight. The way I know it from 4th and 5th Edition, awakened characters can theoretically raise their Magic indefinetely as long as they keep on Initiating. Personal take: There definetely should be a limit in Chargen, but I highly doubt that this is missing, given the lack of another "Booo Magicrun" outcry about this :P Having no limit past Chargen basically means that the need for Initiation has been removed, making the whole thing it a bit cheaper. Donīt really like it, but I also donīt think itīs a gamebreaker, given the progressive Karma Cost for raising Magic itself)
  • Burning out, part 3: Assuming I start with Magic 4, drop to Magic 1 because of Augmentations, and want to buy Magic back to 2: Do I pay 25 Karma or 10 Karma? (Personal take: RAW itīs probably 10 Karma, just like in 5th Edition. TBH, Iīd rather have it like 4th Edition, where advancement costs were based on the Magic Attribute you would have if you hadnīt lost Essence. This burnout-buyback-discount is one of the reasons why Burnout Adepts and Mysads were so popular with powergamers in 5th Edition.)
  • Burning out, part 4: If I burn out down to Zero Magic, can I buy back my Magic with Karma? (Personal take: No. Or more precisely: Not for measly 5 Karma, not without GMs permission and not without jumping through some RP hoops - thinking about Glory in Shadowrun: Dragonfall here. Itīs always been canon that a total burnot means a total disconnect from your magical abilities thatīs usually permanent.)

Note: Iīm not arguing which kind of interpretation is supported by the RAW, because
a. I know only some controversial snippets of the RAW and not the whole picture.
b. frankly, I donīt care. This is a thread about Errata, so letīs talk about how things should work and not how the current RAW can or can not be interpreted ;) Also, if there is ground for discussion on how the RAW works, that alone is a reason for errata.

Edit: Numbered the Bullet points and added #6
« Last Edit: <08-19-19/1542:39> by Finstersang »
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penllawen

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« Reply #126 on: <08-19-19/1138:50> »
Burning out, part 3: Assuming I start with Magic 4, drop to Magic 1 because of Augmentations, and want to buy Magic back to 2: Do I pay 25 Karma or 10 Karma? (Personal take: RAW itīs probably 10 Karma, just like in 5th Edition. TBH, Iīd rather have it like 4th Edition, where advancement costs were based on the Magic Attribute you would have if you hadnīt lost Essence. This burnout-buyback-discount is one of the reasons why Burnout Adepts and Mysads were so popular with powergamers in 5th Edition.)
Is there anyone who thinks "10 karma" is the preferable answer to that? It's extremely munchkin IMO.

Michael Chandra

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« Reply #127 on: <08-19-19/1201:51> »
I don't care about invisible values. If you burn Edge 3x from 5 to 2, you're buying back to 3 so you pay for rank 3. If you lost magic and now are spending karma, your current rank matters. I don't see what's so unbelievable about that opinion.
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Stainless Steel Devil Rat

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« Reply #128 on: <08-19-19/1203:13> »
Burning out and buying back: IMO the order of operations answers the question of how much karma you spend (is it at the highest or lowest, post-cyberware implantation)

Step 1: Formulate your character idea.
Step 2: pick the priority array. Inside step 2 is spending your resources- e.g. buying (and presumably implanting, since there's never a step for that expressed elsewhere) augmentations. Whether you spend SAPs on Magic before or after spending nuyen on resources is moot.  1 SAP = 1 MAG increase, irrespective of MAG value.
Step 3: Select Qualities
Step 4: Spend Karma.  If you want to spend Karma on your MAG attribute, by this point it's already been previously modified by SAPs and Essence loss. If MAG is at 1 (or even 0.. nothing says you became a mundane at 0 magic) at this point, you spend karma accordingly.
« Last Edit: <08-19-19/1204:48> by Stainless Steel Devil Rat »
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penllawen

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« Reply #129 on: <08-19-19/1220:38> »
I don't care about invisible values. If you burn Edge 3x from 5 to 2, you're buying back to 3 so you pay for rank 3. If you lost magic and now are spending karma, your current rank matters. I don't see what's so unbelievable about that opinion.
For one, mages are pretty buff without help like this. If you see a tactic being consistently seized upon by munchkin players, then that's a smell that something is balanced wrong.

For two, it's been well-established in the fluff since forever that burnouts are at worst tragic figures who sold their soul cheap and at best are walking a dangerous path; cheap karma rebuys of lost Magic undermines that. There's no danger in burning out. You can take your magic down to 1 and get it back to 4 for 45 karma. That's not some staggeringly high number that PCs are not going to achieve outside of unusually long campaigns.

But for three, it's inconsistent with karma coats and stat buffs. If you have Agility 5 and muscle toner rating 2, you have 5(7). Your next rank in that costs 30 karma, not 40, because it's computed on the base stat. I don't see why Magic shouldn't be the same but in reverse. You have Magic 5, you get 3.7 Essence points of cyberware fitted, now your magic is 5(1). To go to 6(2) costs you 30 karma. I see the loss of Magic as a result of Essence loss as a permanent debuff.

FastJack

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« Reply #130 on: <08-19-19/1244:33> »
I agree with penllawen. If you're adding 'ware that brings your Essence down, then your Magic down during character creation, it should cost based on the Priority Magic Rating, not the adjusted. If it's based on adjusted, it feels too much like initiation for free. Not too mention, if they purchased Magic 4, went down 3 Essence, then bought it back up to 4, it looks like they started with 7 magic.

Lormyr

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« Reply #131 on: <08-19-19/1254:13> »
This is of benefit to precious few mage builds. Adepts are the main audience this will appeal to due to the current wording of power point calculation at chargen. All of the things that disincentivize doing this in 5e are currently absent in this edition.

The current system needs adjustment so that maxing out power points at chargen is possible, and essence/magic loss results in power point loss.
« Last Edit: <08-19-19/1256:19> by Lormyr »
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Michael Chandra

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« Reply #132 on: <08-19-19/1306:12> »
I agree with penllawen. If you're adding 'ware that brings your Essence down, then your Magic down during character creation, it should cost based on the Priority Magic Rating, not the adjusted. If it's based on adjusted, it feels too much like initiation for free. Not too mention, if they purchased Magic 4, went down 3 Essence, then bought it back up to 4, it looks like they started with 7 magic.
In chargen, is gear pre customization, post or during?

After chargen I think it should be based on current, period. During, I think it's screwing yourself partially and so streamlining wins for me unless gear comes after karma.
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FastJack

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« Reply #133 on: <08-19-19/1338:16> »
Good point... Gear (Step 5) is purchased AFTER customization (Step 4).

Michael Chandra

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« Reply #134 on: <08-19-19/1344:00> »
Well then it's easy.  ;)
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