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Ware upgrades and essence loss/recovery

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Hephaestus

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« on: (14:20:52/07-27-19) »
In the CRB, it states that you can't get Essence back once lost. But I a character were to get an upgraded version of their existing cyber/bioware (say, replacing a standard set of Wired Reflexes 3 with a Deltaware version), what happens to their Essence? Do they:

1) Stay at their lower Essence, and any additional upgrades further reduce their Essence rating?

2) End up with a grew area of Essence that they cannot get back, but can fill up with other 'ware upgrades?

Going along with the example, the wired up character would be going from a 5 Essence upgrade to a 2.5 Essence upgrade. So while their Essence rating would stay at a 1, would they be able to add in 2.5 Essence worth of other upgrades before dropping any lower? Or would their next upgrade be taken out of the remaining 1 essence?

DigitalZombie

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« Reply #1 on: (15:21:33/07-27-19) »
It would be option 2.

The character would end up with an essence hole- that could be used on cybereyes or a fancy new exploding cyberleg.

I have no page reference sadly :/

Typhus

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« Reply #2 on: (16:48:36/07-27-19) »
That's been true in every edition.  I think back in 2E there was a very pricey genetic option that would let you get like 0.1 Essence back for each treatment.  I have no idea if they carried that forward though.

FastJack

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« Reply #3 on: (17:05:10/07-27-19) »
Quote from: Chrome Flesh, p. 156-7
Cellular Repair: This specialized regenerative treatment repairs permanent cellular damage caused by neurotoxins, radiation, magic, and other extreme sources. Each treatment can restore one point of any attribute lost due to disease or severe physical trauma, one point of Essence lost to Energy Drain (p. 195, Street Grimoire) or Essence Drain (p. 396, SR5) powers, or reduce the Blighted quality (p. 169, Run & Gun) by one level. If individuals want to heal multiple points of damage, they have to take the treatment multiple times. It will not fix hereditary problems or disabilities integral to the subject’s own genetic expression.

Revitalization: Revitalization is a breakthrough that repairs Essence loss derived from invasive implantation. Universal Omnitech has been successful in keeping the mechanism a secret, leaving geneticists to speculate that the effect is achieved by performing some kind of “genetic feng shui.” Scientists work with a magician to realign the patient’s aura by genetically remodeling DNA to repair damage to the aura and balance to the body’s systems, restoring Essence. Revitalization regenerates Essence at a rate of 0.1 Essence per treatment. The treatment can restore Essence lost to implants that have been removed and to addiction. The technique cannot restore Essence for implants or treatments that remain in place, and it cannot repair Essence from gene therapies. Magic or Resonance points lost are never returned, and reductions to the maximum Magic/Resonance attribute remain in effect. The treatment takes one month, but patients need only spend seven days in a clinic and then wait the rest of the month for it to kick in.

Hephaestus

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« Reply #4 on: (22:05:22/07-28-19) »
Thanks for the info everyone. I wanted to make sure there was an upside to upgrading different 'wares.

penllawen

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« Reply #5 on: (12:55:42/07-29-19) »
It would be option 2.

The character would end up with an essence hole- that could be used on cybereyes or a fancy new exploding cyberleg.

I have no page reference sadly :/
Although you are 100% correct, I'm not convinced it says this in 5e CRB. I'm not convinced 5e CRB says you die if you get below 0 essence, either. I assume this was somehow lost in an edit, but it's a quite amazing thing to have overlooked.

FastJack

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« Reply #6 on: (13:54:18/07-29-19) »
Under the Essence Drain power in 5ECRB, it states if a victim is drained to zero essence, the victim dies.

And, on page 23, is a bit of fluff:

"But it’s not free. And we’re not just talking money; there’s a higher price to pay. All this stuff is useful and great, but it’s artificial. It’s not metahuman, and your body knows it. Each time you get one of these augmentations, you give up a piece of yourself. You lose something inside of you, the essence of metahumanity. We don’t quite understand what this “it” is, but we know this much—the more artificial you make yourself, the farther you get from actual life. If you get too far, whatever animated you is going to disappear, until all the gear you bought just collapses and becomes indistinguishable from any other pile of silicon, steel, and chrome. So go ahead and get yourself augmented up. Get those synaptic boosters, those muscle replacements, and while you’re at it put a sparkling datajack in your head and some boss, day-glo nano-tattoos on your face. Just understand that each time you do this, another piece of your metahumanity goes sliding away."

penllawen

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« Reply #7 on: (15:15:24/07-29-19) »
Hmm, I am partially corrected — but the fluff isn’t clear cut and the Essence Drain power is a weird place to write up a core mechanic, no?

Michael Chandra

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« Reply #8 on: (15:21:35/07-29-19) »
Yeah it's a typical 'accidentally cutting out a rule nobody misses because everyone knows it exists so doesn't pay attention' editing mistake.
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penllawen

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« Reply #9 on: (16:14:34/07-29-19) »
Funny you should say that, because I hadn't noticed the omision at all[1], personally, until I mentioned to my group's chromed samurai player "of course, zero essence is fatal" and he roared "What? Where the hell does it say that?!"

[1] important context: I picked up 5e last year after a 20 year break, but I ran 2e for ~8 years back in the day.

FastJack

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« Reply #10 on: (16:25:36/07-29-19) »
I agree totally.

But, upon further research, the line that says "...characters can never have an Essence score of 0 or less. If they do, they die." hasn't been in the core rules since 3rd Edition. In fact, 4E's Augmentation has all the stuff on Cybermancy, showing what it takes to go below zero, but no where (except in the Essence Drain powers) does it say zero Essence = death.

Fun fact for your Mondays!

Moonshine Fox

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« Reply #11 on: (17:18:11/07-29-19) »
Is anyone able to confirm if it's spelled out plainly in 6th? I had a player also call on the lack of a clear statement in 5th and threw me cause I played mostly 3rd.

penllawen

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« Reply #12 on: (17:39:51/07-29-19) »
Fun fact for your Mondays!
Hah! No way!