[SR6] Edition Poll

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« Reply #15 on: <07-17-19/0613:03> »
I'll never get away explaining my gm I now can soak damage like an armored troll as my lightly dressed bikini mage. "Hm let's stick to 5th for now" was his first remark. Can't blame him honestly.

I've picked the "Look more core rules" option regardless- I am strongly convinced quickstarter sets and a few online streams/podcasts did not fully reveal the design intent and the so far defined rules, qualities etc. in a spectrum broad enough to seriously judge how it will work out in games long term.

One particular point of critic goes towards the narrators of the metaplot, however. To clarify what I mean, while there's nothing wrong with presenting such over podcasts or rp streams or at conventions, it feels a bit ridiculous to observe already as a spoiled 2019 customer, not to speak of immersing the point of view of a 2080 spectator.
It's like, the matrix in some US cities is down, and the rest of the world stands still- ironically a major narrative flaw for a setting that allegedly will favour a narrative style over the simulation.
Needless to point out, as passionate simulationist I was highly baffled when all info I was able to dig up on how this Blackout-thing would be received in Aztlan, all I got told on discord was basically "We can't tell you anything due to being told to not to talk about stuff".
I get it's like this for UCAS settings suffering from the blackout, and the failure of publicly available information is part of the plot, but still- I can't even roll my eyes as far back as this warrants. Narrow minded narrative perspective much?

Granted, storytelling technically is not related to the rules, but given the general opinion seems to be that SR6 favours a "narrative", action-heavy playstyle over the simulation-aspect, I have to highlight that neglecting the simulative aspects is what causes lore contradictions first hand, as stuff happens "because", and not because someone did it there, then and to achieve this. Blackout, not man-made, some greater evil, sure thing, nice plot. But why does the rest of the world lay the hands in the lap and gawk?
I've now read the other day that it's rumoured now the CAS made moves into Florida to reoccupy lost territory. Ghostwalker? Big Bad A? Anyone? Hello?
This even goes as far as that despite a freaking continent-wide blackout, massive riots were spared out to only take place where it fits a core plot for all I observed. As if everyone owned the best Trid machine by now and looting was a 60's thing. Just no.


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« Reply #16 on: <07-17-19/0649:07> »
The Good
  • Limits are gone. THANK GOD! (well, almost. See below...)
  • Streamlining, hell yes! I heard there even will be status effects?
  • Faster Combat resolution
  • Matrix rules that are finally usable and not an overengineered mess.
  • I actually like the Edge mechanic, safe for one very important detail (see below...). Its also an absolute gift to anyone who wants to add new perks and options to the game: Besides the usual stuff like some dice pool modifiers here and there, new perks could also offer a discount for certain Edge uses or even new Edge uses themselfes.

The Bad
  • Whats that stupid drek with strength playing no role when using melee weapons?
  • The Streamlining goes a bit too Lo-Res in some instances. Armor, Cover, Range and Recoil are boiled down to three possible outcomes (A gets Egde, B gets Edge, no one gets Edge). Thats not bad per se and I get the idea, but it can have some silly outcomes if the odds are stacked massively towards one sidem which still gets only one Edge token for it (and probably not even that, see below...)
  • Spiritrun is back, apparently. This pisses me off to no end, because its one of the most salient complaints coming from the community. "Dude, many players really have a problem with the strength of spirits and summoners". "Yeah, you know what we should do in the next Edition? Get rid of binding." Top Kek.
  • The limit of 2 Edge gained per combat round. There are still many that underestimate how incredibly hard this will suck if this is actually RAI. It turns the whole premise of the fancy new Edge system into a joke. (Not that Ill have to worry myself, its the first thing Ill houserule, and its literally just one word to change. But my condolences to anyone who has to play SR6 strictly by the book :P)

The Ugly
  • The QSR really didnt give me confidence about the editing in the Core rules. Right now, I expect the same mess as in SR5.
« Last Edit: <07-17-19/0820:36> by Finstersang »

Shinobi Killfist

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« Reply #17 on: <07-17-19/0912:03> »
I think I can houserule it into working. The question will be will it be easier to just steal a couple of the positives into 5e than houserule this.

Streamlining is good. Other than the one pass thing and maybe the matrix Im not really seeing it yet. Futzing with edge seems to be slower than modifiers imo. But maybe in play it Streamlined.

If this makes the matrix more useable great. I have players who love the idea of deckers but hate the mechanics.

The spell casting side maybe is a bit more balanced. But spirits seem more broken to me.

Even if its streamlined edge does a piss poor job of replacing modifiers for a variety of reasons. Especially if capped at 2 a round. That being said its not that hard to slap an effective bonus auto hit on a defense test due to range or wind.

Iron Serpent Prince

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« Reply #18 on: <07-17-19/0941:51> »
Anyone else here old enough to remember the D&D 4th rollout on the WotC forums?

Just me?

Whats my point?

Well, I remember a poll like this being put up on their forums.  I have less than zero insider knowledge on both of these polls.  My gut instinct told me that both polls were put up with the same basic intention, and that perhaps they had the same impact.

The shift to D&D 4 was so devicive and so heated that I got the feeling that the forum person who put up the poll was trying to say "Many people like it!  Really!  See?"

This poll is still young, and subject to change.  So far it has see-sawed around the same result.  About as many like it, as hate it.
What the WotC poll had that this one doesn't (at least yet) was a statistically significant larger portion of people giving D&D 4 the "wait and see."  I'm going off of memory, but I am pretty sure that the "wait and see's" outnumbered the likes and hates combined.

Now, I won't go and say the D&D 4 was a failure.  By any objective measure it wasn't (as far as I know).  But by a business standpoint, D&D 4 was so under performing that fans of it practically got whiplash by how fast 5th was pushed out the door.  Okay, I'll own it.  That is more than a little hyperbole.

I'm not saying that Shadowrun Sixth World will have a similar fate to D&D 4.  That being said, there are enough similarities that I am seeing that make me think:  "Hmmmm...  Just maybe."  I don't think Shadowrun has the customer base to make a split like D&D 4th financially viable.

For Catalyst's sake, I hope I am wrong.


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« Reply #19 on: <07-17-19/1111:53> »
Id need to actually read them to make judgment. So far Im not pleased with everything seemingly being about Edge (again though this time different).

But Ill read and then make my call
If Tom Bradys a Spike Baby, what does that make Brees and Rodgers?


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« Reply #20 on: <07-17-19/1456:05> »
Please leave the matrix rules per the quick start alone. Yes they need some tweaks but I suspect all that will happen is complication. This is the best martix ive seen per RAW since MR J Blackbook. Leave it be!
Also take the flat edge cap off, make it +3 or +6 or x2 if you must have a cap. Edge should flow like water and reset to base between scenes (like the old combat pool)
Make armor better.
Make rigging better its terrible still, forget hard distances go with short med long etc.
I can live with the rest.


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« Reply #21 on: <07-18-19/0013:50> »
So, "Make it easier to get into this," "Improve the state of Rigging," "More user-friendly Matrix," "Make fighting smoother," and "Cast one Force: Huge spell and then take a nap while my allies/spirits scramble over the bodies," are all admirable goals. If SR6 does all of these, great!

"Make combat more back-and-forth," "You/They/Nobody gets an Edge," and "Gain & Spend Edge" are what make me hesitant. I'm okay with combat being resolved quickly, since part of the draw to me was the idea that you can quickly overtake a superior opposition with planning and surprise. It is less exciting, though. I'm guessing that's still possible in SR 6. Also, while gaining and spending Edge will undoubtedly be easy to do and narrate, I still wonder if unrelated gainings and uses will feel disjointed, or if GMs having to say things like, "Doing that won't get you any Edge because we're not in Initiative/that random civilian isn't an Encounter" will be a necessary 4th wall break.

On the whole, I'm still going to suspend my judgment until Core becomes available, and maybe a sourcebook or two after that. Especially if my presumptions about those potential problems turn out to be wrong, they might not be huge, glaring deal-breakers or anything.
"Welcome to Shadowrun, where the biggest obstacle is you!"


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« Reply #22 on: <07-18-19/2136:31> »
Avoiding this edition completely. After I read the Core rules and the Starter box and ran it with a seasoned group no one had any fun at all. The rules are to watered down, making everything an Edge mechanic is terrible, and I am absolutely not cool with the fact that gear is worthless. Part of the game was the struggle to get out of the gutter and get some good who cares if you have a Panther can't kill anyone. Averages are that unless your target is like prone dead on the ground and unmoving they can still make a few net success so a weapon that should be able to blow up a tank  can be shrugged off without any problems.

 Sticking with 5th with a few house rules.

Orcish Librarian

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« Reply #23 on: <07-19-19/0011:21> »
Yeah, I'm out! I was thinking about going 6e because it seems simpler and less a pain in the butt then 5e (especially concerning character creation), but after making the mistake of buying the digital beginner box I've decided to skip 6e and drop 5e even if that means looking for a new group. The beginner box is so shoddily put together that it infuriates me and I've decided to wait until a 6e crb shows up in the garbage... uh... bargain bin somewhere before even thinking about touching it. I'll go either the hybrid-grognard-way and retool a previous edition for play in the 2080s or do (or use) a full-on conversion to another system.

Anyways, I'm effin outta here after playing Shadowrun from 2e till the end of 5e straight, always upgrading to the newest edition when it came along. I loved 4e so much I even bought the pdf AND the book (sometimes twice, since I'm German). No I'm leaving as a customer. Good job, Catalyst!
Ceterum censeo Catalyst Game Labs esse delendam!


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« Reply #24 on: <07-19-19/0119:03> »
I'm waiting to see. There are some things I've heard that I like, but others, especially revolving around combat, have me deeply concerned. Armor not helping to keep the bullets from shredding your flesh and a sledgehammer doing the same damage in the hands of a cybered-up troll and a weak-ass teenager with no ware or magic powers, to say nothing of the massive clusterfrag that Edge looks to be has me very concerned. I want the core book in my (virtual) hands, so I can see what is what, but I am skeptical.
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« Reply #25 on: <07-19-19/1653:49> »
I'm probably going to move my game to another system rather than update. 5ths a mess and 6th sounds even worse.

Heard you can pull off a pretty good shadowrun in GURPS.


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« Reply #26 on: <07-22-19/1945:21> »
Changing my "vote" to "Waiting to Hear More".  This edition does a lot of things I wanted it to.  Like, almost everything, plus a couple bonus things I hadn't thought of.  Unfortunately it's doing some things I think old school players are going to struggle with.  Production quality may be an issue again too.  Snippets revealed on Reddit give me knucklemouth.


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« Reply #27 on: <07-29-19/2202:36> »
I started in the third category, but the more I think about it, I'm shifting towards the first.  I have had issues with all editions of SR, but I've loved the franchise since SR1.  I liked SR5 most from a balance and gameplay perspective - every edition really felt like an improvement over the one before it.

After a while to think on it, I feel like SR6 might be a better overall edition - certainly better for attracting new players.  A few issues are weighing it down just like every other edition had its issues.  My hope is that SR6 will be the best available choice, even if it's not perfect, and I'll give it the chance it deserves.


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« Reply #28 on: <07-31-19/0919:47> »
I'm doubting between options 1 and 5. Shadowrun could absolutely use a lot of streamlining, and if SR6 does that right, then that could be great. But I also worry that doing it wrong could hurt the spirit and feeling of the game. I have strong doubts about the changes to the initiative system and how armor will apparently work.

At the same time, it doesn't really matter to me, because I'm not going to be touching the new edition anyway. I just invested heavily in SR5, bought a ridiculous amount of books, and the game I'm running even takes place in the SR4 era. So I can afford to wait until getting into SR6, and I'm not eager to jump into a new system when I'm just on my way to getting a good grip on the old system.

Ange Gardien

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« Reply #29 on: <08-06-19/0313:12> »
I'm not pleased with the nerfing of the magicians since the fifth edition. I run games with characters having all some kind of magic. The essence of Shadowrun is magic for me. The essence of playing something true for a long campaign is magic (because, you have so many Karma points to spend and so many questions to ask about yourself or the meaning of things).
I liked my mana bolt the hard way, it stunned once a dragon after an epic battle when the koala shaman arrived last minute and was lucky and the dragon unlucky.
This will be my main house rule, keeping the magic the way it was. (I never had the chance to play de Fifth edition, though, hard to find players in my small town, here in France)
The second one will be checking that armors aren't nerfed too and the races.. Because the Troll from the Quickstart is not a troll for me (strengh and constitution are not right, I'm use to first to third edition, a Troll is a troll, with way more strengh and constitution).
The other stuffs doesn't bother or please me.