[Xzylvador]

Why would you go for an amphibious Kanmushi, when you could make it lighter than air and still have mod slots?

Because it'll be a lot easier to spot and handle, hanging below a balloon?

Eh. I always figured it was installed internally. (at least partially)
It's not like there's any suggested consistency in balloon size or modifiers to show the drone is noticeably larger or easier to spot - just slower and harder to handle.

"The vehicle is mounted on a zeppelin or blimp frame, so that it can now loiter over an area for days. The gas bag is filled with non-flammable gas."
While there aren't any rules for perception modifier for the mod, it's going to be hard to defend that it's still micro-drone sized, probably mini or even small-drone sized, giving a much different concealability rating in the table p.311.

[Man Who Walks At Night]

El Doctor:
Ares Alpha (RC 2, integral smartlink, underbarrel grenade launcher)
-Airburst Link, Gas Vent 3 Accessory (Barrel), Shock Pad, Flashlight Accessory (Under)
-Auto-Adjusting Weight (4 slots), Personal Grip (1 slot), Gekko Grip (1 slot)

Combined RC of 9 on full auto bursts as well as a grenade launcher, what more could you ask for?

Something subtle?

[Loki]

El Doctor:
Ares Alpha (RC 2, integral smartlink, underbarrel grenade launcher)
-Airburst Link, Gas Vent 3 Accessory (Barrel), Shock Pad, Flashlight Accessory (Under)
-Auto-Adjusting Weight (4 slots), Personal Grip (1 slot), Gekko Grip (1 slot)

Combined RC of 9 on full auto bursts as well as a grenade launcher, what more could you ask for?

Auto adjusting weight and unberbarrel grenade launcher take the same slot. You can drop the weight for heavy barrel and bet 8. You'll also have another slot to play with, I'd go extended clip.
[/quote]

[Inarai]

El Doctor:
Ares Alpha (RC 2, integral smartlink, underbarrel grenade launcher)
-Airburst Link, Gas Vent 3 Accessory (Barrel), Shock Pad, Flashlight Accessory (Under)
-Auto-Adjusting Weight (4 slots), Personal Grip (1 slot), Gekko Grip (1 slot)

Combined RC of 9 on full auto bursts as well as a grenade launcher, what more could you ask for?

Auto adjusting weight and unberbarrel grenade launcher take the same slot. You can drop the weight for heavy barrel and bet 8. You'll also have another slot to play with, I'd go extended clip.

[/quote]

You seem to be mixing rules systems, there.  Modifications don't have location based mounting like you see with accessories, instead taking up a number of slots.  "Mounting Locations" don't exist for modifications - which makes perfect sense, when you consider it's something being built into the weapon, no being attached to it on the outside.

At least, that's the best I've been able to gather based on what's actually written in the rules and by asking in the rules forum.

[Loki]

El Doctor:
Ares Alpha (RC 2, integral smartlink, underbarrel grenade launcher)
-Airburst Link, Gas Vent 3 Accessory (Barrel), Shock Pad, Flashlight Accessory (Under)
-Auto-Adjusting Weight (4 slots), Personal Grip (1 slot), Gekko Grip (1 slot)

Combined RC of 9 on full auto bursts as well as a grenade launcher, what more could you ask for?

Auto adjusting weight and unberbarrel grenade launcher take the same slot. You can drop the weight for heavy barrel and bet 8. You'll also have another slot to play with, I'd go extended clip.

You seem to be mixing rules systems, there.  Modifications don't have location based mounting like you see with accessories, instead taking up a number of slots.  "Mounting Locations" don't exist for modifications - which makes perfect sense, when you consider it's something being built into the weapon, no being attached to it on the outside.

At least, that's the best I've been able to gather based on what's actually written in the rules and by asking in the rules forum.
[/quote]

Where else would a moving underbarrel weight go but under the barrel? But to quote rules,
Arsenal page 148: Modifications vs. Accessories
"Some of the weapon modifications presented in this list are also available as firearm accessories. The difference between the two of them is that accessories can be installed without requiring extensive mechanical knowledge, while modifications require an application of the modification rules mentioned at
the beginning of this chapter."

Nothing about mods getting to ignore placement requirements.

[Inarai]

El Doctor:
Ares Alpha (RC 2, integral smartlink, underbarrel grenade launcher)
-Airburst Link, Gas Vent 3 Accessory (Barrel), Shock Pad, Flashlight Accessory (Under)
-Auto-Adjusting Weight (4 slots), Personal Grip (1 slot), Gekko Grip (1 slot)

Combined RC of 9 on full auto bursts as well as a grenade launcher, what more could you ask for?

Auto adjusting weight and unberbarrel grenade launcher take the same slot. You can drop the weight for heavy barrel and bet 8. You'll also have another slot to play with, I'd go extended clip.

You seem to be mixing rules systems, there.  Modifications don't have location based mounting like you see with accessories, instead taking up a number of slots.  "Mounting Locations" don't exist for modifications - which makes perfect sense, when you consider it's something being built into the weapon, no being attached to it on the outside.

At least, that's the best I've been able to gather based on what's actually written in the rules and by asking in the rules forum.

Where else would a moving underbarrel weight go but under the barrel? But to quote rules,
Arsenal page 148: Modifications vs. Accessories
"Some of the weapon modifications presented in this list are also available as firearm accessories. The difference between the two of them is that accessories can be installed without requiring extensive mechanical knowledge, while modifications require an application of the modification rules mentioned at
the beginning of this chapter."

Nothing about mods getting to ignore placement requirements.

Mods don't have placement requirements in the first place, and they don't attach - you build them into the weapon, they are internal.  In the case of the weight, the modification would likely involve building some casing out around it to hold it, as would the underbarrel weapon. 

Again:  modifications do not have a property for placement.  That is entirely absent from the modification rules.

Modifications and accessories are separate systems, and their properties are not identical from one to the other - Underbarrel Weight, for example, seems to function differently as a modification versus as an accessory.

You should also take note that the entry on Gas Vent in modifications makes it fairly explicit - discussing how to handle specific barrel mounted accessories in conjunction with the modification, something that would not be a possibility if modifications used mounting slots.  It is also worth wondering how you'd know what slot they'd take, seeing as they don't list one and there's no rules saying they use the same mounting location as the accessory version.

[Loki]

If Mods ignored slotting rules (and potentially physics) then that would be noted, see Arsenal page 150: "Bayonet Mount: The bayonet mount allows the attachment of a bayonet (see p. 32) without using up the barrel mount, as it usually does." If they note it as a deviance from the norm for bayonets, why would deviance be the norm for other mods?







Edit for clarity

[CanRay]

All I have to say is that I have to pimp slap my AK-97 quite often when I pimp her out, because she never comes back with money!

[Inarai]

If Mods ignored slotting rules (and potentially physics) then that would be noted, see Arsenal page 150: "Bayonet Mount: The bayonet mount allows the attachment of a bayonet (see p. 32) without using up the barrel mount, as it usually does." If they note it as a deviance from the norm for bayonets, why would deviance be the norm for other mods?

Edit for clarity

You should really double check the bayonet itself - if you did, you'd see it is an accessory, not a mod, and has "Barrel" as it's Mount entry.  And while you're at it, compare the Modification listings to the Accessory listings, you should notice that Accessories have a "Mount" entry, while Modifications do not.

And again, I remind you:  Mods are built into the weapon.  They involve things such as swapping out parts, and that sort of thing.  Mod slots are used for the measurement of how much capacity a weapon has for such modification - by default, it's 6 to everything, but the GM is free to adjust that as he wishes for smaller/larger weapons if he thinks it makes little sense for a holdout and a Panther to have the same capacity.  Slots, really, would be a pointless mechanic if Mountings were required.

[Loki]

If Mods ignored slotting rules (and potentially physics) then that would be noted, see Arsenal page 150: "Bayonet Mount: The bayonet mount allows the attachment of a bayonet (see p. 32) without using up the barrel mount, as it usually does." If they note it as a deviance from the norm for bayonets, why would deviance be the norm for other mods?

Edit for clarity

You should really double check the bayonet itself - if you did, you'd see it is an accessory, not a mod, and has "Barrel" as it's Mount entry.  And while you're at it, compare the Modification listings to the Accessory listings, you should notice that Accessories have a "Mount" entry, while Modifications do not.

And again, I remind you:  Mods are built into the weapon.  They involve things such as swapping out parts, and that sort of thing.  Mod slots are used for the measurement of how much capacity a weapon has for such modification - by default, it's 6 to everything, but the GM is free to adjust that as he wishes for smaller/larger weapons if he thinks it makes little sense for a holdout and a Panther to have the same capacity.  Slots, really, would be a pointless mechanic if Mountings were required.

You should check out the pages I've listed. Had you done so you would see that I quoted the bayonet mount mod, not the accessory. And while I have listed several quotes supporting my stance, you've provided nothing but assurances that your opinion is correct. Where are you facts coming from? Show me some page numbers.

[Inarai]

If Mods ignored slotting rules (and potentially physics) then that would be noted, see Arsenal page 150: "Bayonet Mount: The bayonet mount allows the attachment of a bayonet (see p. 32) without using up the barrel mount, as it usually does." If they note it as a deviance from the norm for bayonets, why would deviance be the norm for other mods?

Edit for clarity

You should really double check the bayonet itself - if you did, you'd see it is an accessory, not a mod, and has "Barrel" as it's Mount entry.  And while you're at it, compare the Modification listings to the Accessory listings, you should notice that Accessories have a "Mount" entry, while Modifications do not.

And again, I remind you:  Mods are built into the weapon.  They involve things such as swapping out parts, and that sort of thing.  Mod slots are used for the measurement of how much capacity a weapon has for such modification - by default, it's 6 to everything, but the GM is free to adjust that as he wishes for smaller/larger weapons if he thinks it makes little sense for a holdout and a Panther to have the same capacity.  Slots, really, would be a pointless mechanic if Mountings were required.

You should check out the pages I've listed. Had you done so you would see that I quoted the bayonet mount mod, not the accessory. And while I have listed several quotes supporting my stance, you've provided nothing but assurances that your opinion is correct. Where are you facts coming from? Show me some page numbers.

A: I checked out the bayonet mount mod.  It's a mounting slot which may be used for a bayonet, not a bayonet.  The bayonet is the accessory that requires the slot.
B: The rules do not contain the things that would be required for you to be right, and would be unlikely to contain a direct reference.  But let me lay it out for you:

- If modifications used up mounting slots, the rules would say modifications used mounting slots.
-- The rules do not say that modifications use mounting slots.  In some places, they even handle the case of having having barrel mounted accessories with modifications that would be barrel mounted if such a thing were possible
- If mountings were used as the limiter on modifications, the Slots mechanic would likely not exist
-- The Slots mechanic exists.
- If modifications required mountings, their entries would state the mountings that they use.
-- They do not state a mounting that they use.
--- This is a big hole in your argument, by the way, so, I'll ask the direct question:  If modifications use mounting slots, what tells me the one a modification uses?

In other words, my case is made largely by the absence of particular things.  I would not expect the modification rules to reference rules they don't interact with at all, and accordingly, they do not reference the mounting slot rules.

[Loki]

  True most mods (and some accessories) do not have slot requirements, but some do based on the physics of how they work. An underbarrel weight needs to be under the barrel. Period. Or it's just dead weight. And as there is only one slot there, the above Ares Alpha can't mount one without losing the grenade launcher. To put it under the GL will require removal of the GL thus loss of the "free" mod point it granted. You could try to weld it under the GL but as a machinist I can tell you that it'd be really bad for you when you went to fire it.

As to the rules regarding the difference between accessories and mods it clearly states. "The difference between the two of them is that accessories can be installed without requiring extensive mechanical knowledge, while modifications require an application of the modification rules mentioned at the beginning of this chapter." Difference, singular, meaning one difference, which is then detailed. Nothing is mentioned of slotted accessories ignoring that rule.

[Inarai]

  True most mods (and some accessories) do not have slot requirements, but some do based on the physics of how they work. An underbarrel weight needs to be under the barrel. Period. Or it's just dead weight. And as there is only one slot there, the above Ares Alpha can't mount one without losing the grenade launcher. To put it under the GL will require removal of the GL thus loss of the "free" mod point it granted. You could try to weld it under the GL but as a machinist I can tell you that it'd be really bad for you when you went to fire it.

As to the rules regarding the difference between accessories and mods it clearly states. "The difference between the two of them is that accessories can be installed without requiring extensive mechanical knowledge, while modifications require an application of the modification rules mentioned at the beginning of this chapter." Difference, singular, meaning one difference, which is then detailed. Nothing is mentioned of slotted accessories ignoring that rule.

An underbarrel weight needs to be positioned under the barrel, but that's not the same as being on the under barrel mount - if it's on the mount, it is fully external, modular, and separate from the weapon.  The modification becomes a part of the weapon.  In the case of combining it with the grenade launcher, I'd suggest it likely sits between the rifle barrel and the launcher, with the casing being built in around the whole set..

And you're dodging around an important point:  How can you possibly know what mount slots a modification uses if it doesn't say anything about it?  What piece of rules text states that the underbarrel weight modification, being distinct from the accessory bearing the same name, takes the underbarrel slot (and I will not grant you anything from the name, as whatever means you employ to make that determination must be generalizable)?  Modifications are not accessories, yet you seem to be assuming they are subject to all the same rules unless stated otherwise - they are distinct systems.

[Loki]

  True most mods (and some accessories) do not have slot requirements, but some do based on the physics of how they work. An underbarrel weight needs to be under the barrel. Period. Or it's just dead weight. And as there is only one slot there, the above Ares Alpha can't mount one without losing the grenade launcher. To put it under the GL will require removal of the GL thus loss of the "free" mod point it granted. You could try to weld it under the GL but as a machinist I can tell you that it'd be really bad for you when you went to fire it.

As to the rules regarding the difference between accessories and mods it clearly states. "The difference between the two of them is that accessories can be installed without requiring extensive mechanical knowledge, while modifications require an application of the modification rules mentioned at the beginning of this chapter." Difference, singular, meaning one difference, which is then detailed. Nothing is mentioned of slotted accessories ignoring that rule.

An underbarrel weight needs to be positioned under the barrel, but that's not the same as being on the under barrel mount - if it's on the mount, it is fully external, modular, and separate from the weapon.  The modification becomes a part of the weapon.  In the case of combining it with the grenade launcher, I'd suggest it likely sits between the rifle barrel and the launcher, with the casing being built in around the whole set..

And you're dodging around an important point:  How can you possibly know what mount slots a modification uses if it doesn't say anything about it?  What piece of rules text states that the underbarrel weight modification, being distinct from the accessory bearing the same name, takes the underbarrel slot (and I will not grant you anything from the name, as whatever means you employ to make that determination must be generalizable)?  Modifications are not accessories, yet you seem to be assuming they are subject to all the same rules unless stated otherwise - they are distinct systems.

Well, if the weight mod will work just as well only halfway up the barrel, why make the accessory "underbarrel only"  in the first place.

I have dodged nothing, they are the same thing only mods are more permanently attached, as per Arsenal page 148: "Modifications vs. Accessories
Some of the weapon modifications presented in this list are also available as firearm accessories. The difference between the two of them is that accessories can be installed without requiring extensive mechanical knowledge, while modifications require an application of the modification rules mentioned at
the beginning of this chapter." That's crystal clear to me.

[aimlessfreak]

All I have to say is that I have to pimp slap my AK-97 quite often when I pimp her out, because she never comes back with money!

make sure you don't use your ring hand, don't wanna mess her face up