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Magic in SR6?

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Stainless Steel Devil Rat

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« Reply #30 on: (16:03:00/07-09-19) »
I think your missing a point SSDR. If a force 4 is now as unstoppable as a force 8 or 12 was in 5e, assuming pools are even kinda close to what they were in 5e, re-rolling won't be needed.

I don't consider how hard it is to kill a spirit as being as important as what that spirit can do to rock your world.  For argument's sake.. if a 6e F4 spirit is just as hard to kill as a 5e F8 spirit, that F4 still doesn't have the F8's offensive threat.
RPG mechanics exist to give structure and consistency to the game world, true, but at the end of the day, youíre fighting dragons with algebra and random number generators.

Lormyr

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« Reply #31 on: (16:17:05/07-09-19) »
Given how much more Edge it costs to safely summon higher ones

What do you need edge for when a mage can come out of chargen with 26ish drain resistance dice?

From what had been released it does sound more powerful.

High end of the spectrum of force, definitely. Up to about force 6 stays relatively equal to before all things considered.

Iím not sure Iíve seen powerful defensive magic since like 2e, useful but not super powerful.

If you are willing to quicken defense it gets insane quickly. My missions mystic adept from chicago had 41 defense dice vs. melee, 50 defense dice vs. ranged, 56 damage resistance dice, 41/47 toxin resistance dice, and 34 radiation resistance dice. That was waking up for breakfast before stuff like full defense, and with only buying hits for the spells. It cost me the ability to be subtle around magic through because I was never going to not set off an alarm if I went (broke) through a ward.

Given how soak works in 6e I strongly suspect spirits will be unstoppable in 6e.

It looks to me like the "my role is to kill the opposition" PC is going to have an average DV of about 7 or 8 + net hits, after extra like burst fire and what not. So up through force 6 spirits I think things will roughly be status quo to what we are used to 5. Past that it will quickly outpace potential player damage values. The sole exception being physical adepts, who actually have the potential to do incredible melee damage despite strength being completely useless on all but unarmed builds.

Michael Chandra

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« Reply #32 on: (16:48:24/07-09-19) »
Given how much more Edge it costs to safely summon higher ones

What do you need edge for when a mage can come out of chargen with 26ish drain resistance dice?

I'll gladly run drain math if you can tell me how easy that is to reach.
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Stainless Steel Devil Rat

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« Reply #33 on: (16:54:17/07-09-19) »
I can see 20 dice for a min/maxer (10s in the two drain stats), but since you can't start with initation (i.e. no centering foci) I'm not sure where beyond 20 could be coming from.
RPG mechanics exist to give structure and consistency to the game world, true, but at the end of the day, youíre fighting dragons with algebra and random number generators.

Michael Chandra

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« Reply #34 on: (17:00:51/07-09-19) »
Depends on how you read things. But banning initiation in chargen suffices to make it take a while if hyperfocus on drain is something you worry about as GM.

You could also make a gentlemen agreement with your players of course.
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Lormyr

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« Reply #35 on: (17:10:12/07-09-19) »
I didn't see anything preventing initiation at chargen. If it is there and I missed it then cool, but I did make every effort to be thorough. 20 is max if I missed verbage banning it, otherwise high 20s.

Kiirnodel

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« Reply #36 on: (17:15:13/07-09-19) »
Even if we assume that initiation is allowed, how do you manage to have two attributes at 10 and afford initiation and a centering focus?

Lormyr

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« Reply #37 on: (17:26:02/07-09-19) »
With points to spare. Elf, exceptional charisma, 2 initiations or 2 focused concentration and 1 initiation, rating 6 focus.

Stainless Steel Devil Rat

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« Reply #38 on: (17:58:32/07-09-19) »
The chargen step describing spending leftover karma lists 3 things you may spend karma on.  Initiation isn't one of them.

Edit: Technically 4 things, including converting karma to nuyen.  Still, initiation isn't one of the 4 things.
« Last Edit: (18:00:36/07-09-19) by Stainless Steel Devil Rat »
RPG mechanics exist to give structure and consistency to the game world, true, but at the end of the day, youíre fighting dragons with algebra and random number generators.

Shinobi Killfist

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« Reply #39 on: (19:07:45/07-09-19) »
Some of that Iím not worried about. Player x can break the game just isnít a concern. Because pretty much any game that slows you to build a character can be broken. Iím more concerned with how the game breaks in normal play not when people stretch it to absurdity.

That being said the new focused concentration imo moves the game towards breaking the game in normal play. Having 16-20 drain dice might be the norm at char gen. And when they foolishly add intuition drain stats in again it will get even worse as your sustained +4 intuition spell will do double duty, combat boost and drain stat boost.

Marcus

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« Reply #40 on: (19:11:46/07-09-19) »
Foci do exists!
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Shinobi Killfist

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« Reply #41 on: (19:41:54/07-09-19) »
Foci do exists!

Existing I assumed. If they are as abusable as before is what Ive been wondering. 6 dice for 36 karma when boosting your magic or skill by 1 for 1 die costs 35 is a bit too big of a discount.

Basically

1. how to they add dice/function.
2. Monetary costs
3. Karma costs
4. Are the breakable without you effectively being captured.
5. If broken can you easily fix or just turn them on again or is the karma/money lost.
6. Do they add a element of risk like in 1e/2e.

Shinobi Killfist

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« Reply #42 on: (19:50:55/07-09-19) »
As an aside I hope blight etc gets fired out of a canon into the sun. You donít fix a broken rule by making a piece of gear that counters it. You fix the rule. The whole I have x gear for just this occasion thing gets absurd quick.

Stainless Steel Devil Rat

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« Reply #43 on: (20:53:03/07-09-19) »
As an aside I hope blight etc gets fired out of a canon into the sun. You donít fix a broken rule by making a piece of gear that counters it. You fix the rule. The whole I have x gear for just this occasion thing gets absurd quick.

You're not wrong.
RPG mechanics exist to give structure and consistency to the game world, true, but at the end of the day, youíre fighting dragons with algebra and random number generators.

Marcus

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« Reply #44 on: (22:34:37/07-09-19) »
Blight is whatever. It's simply the answer to the question can you inject someone with something that disrupts their connection to magic? If yes then it's a tax. As every magic user then uses magic to become immune to it. If that answer is no, then carry on as is. I don't think unreasonable question to asking in a setting that has magic. 

Did someone say if quickening still exists? Even if doesn't though, so long as there are sustaining foci. Folks are eventually going to run around with magically boosted stats. How super human they get remains to be seen. Making magic less defensive is consistent with everything that has been done in 6e that I'm aware of too date. It does mean some spells and adept power will fall out of use. Hopefully other will be found to take their place. Odds are we can simply write off combat sense and magic armor.
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