NEWS

Magic in SR6?

  • 101 Replies
  • 2460 Views

Marcus

  • *
  • Prime Runner
  • *****
  • Posts: 2661
  • Success always demands a greater effort.
« Reply #15 on: (23:19:19/07-06-19) »
So my take away from that, is drain is clearly intended to be a serious issue, spells are "Modular" (like a Battlemech? If so does it mean we all
 will be using Omni-spells?) and lastly spirits are still here, and everything they have always been.

 Any word on Foci? Do they have force?
*Play-by-Post color guide*
Thinking
com
speaking

Cubby

  • *
  • Deniable Asset
  • Newb
  • ****
  • Posts: 20
  • Communications
« Reply #16 on: (13:01:11/07-08-19) »
Hi all,

My fault for not getting this article posted here and on the other websites sooner - been overwhelmed on the BT front. Glad you were able to find and discuss it anyway.

Moonshine Fox

  • *
  • Omae
  • ***
  • Posts: 548
  • Proudly serving our dragon overlords
« Reply #17 on: (18:14:13/07-08-19) »
I do like the modular nature, as it gives really good guidelines to whip up variants of spells without worry. I also like that drain looks like it's going to be more of an issue for casters trying to chuck force deadly stunballs at everyone. I'm intrigued by this warm healing and cool healing thing. Could now have a magical version of Icyhot for heals and pranks ;D


Some interesting comments re selling crunch.

I think this lets them focus on different kinds of crunch. Rather than each new book needing to include stats for weapons, spells, etc...you can focus on new additions that complement existing. For example, a rules for blood magic, rune magic, etc; rules for ammunition; etc. each of these could be completely optional and added based on GM/group preference. You could then have a range if accessories, such as cards, that could be POD/PDF. Have the weapon cards...no problems...the file could be updated with the new tweaks/add-ones which you can use as needed. This would really let people dial up the crunch to their comfort level.

I like the idea of subscriptions...sort of. When youíre paying a monthly fee, you expect to get stuff monthly (kinda like Patreon?). Weíll be doing that already for HLO (at least those if us who go down that path), so not exactly how that might look/work for CGL.

For weapons, one of the things that could be done is to tag on each weapon with what upgrades can be applied to it. That way, you wouldn't be able to have a full-auto Barret with a chopped barrel and drum mag, but you would be able to have an optimized Barret with a recoil compensating stock and a precision-rifled barrel. That would also open up the ability for some weapons that have lower stats to have more upgrade potential.

As for subscription services, I think it depends on how they structure it. If they are charging $10-$15/month, then players should be getting free PDFs of new books as they drop. If they are charging $1-$3/month as a maintenance fee for keeping the database up to date, then I don't think many people would be clamoring for constant item updates.

And, keeping a living document online allows for instantaneous correction of errors, instead of having to task a team of people with compiling errata and eventually releasing a PDF to catalog changes months later.

At the least more detail on what guns have what mounting points. Some is common sense sure, but some guns not so much.

AJCarrington

  • *
  • Global Moderator
  • Prime Runner
  • *****
  • Posts: 3080
« Reply #18 on: (19:42:52/07-08-19) »
Couldnít resist...a case study in what NOT to do ;D:


BeCareful

  • *
  • Newb
  • *
  • Posts: 61
« Reply #19 on: (23:10:19/07-08-19) »
How much of a penalty to Concealability must that thing accumulate?
As for Magic in Sixth World, has there been any word on the viability of builds like, "The Great Big Spirit With the Cowardly Conjurer Over There?" Maybe putting Blight in core, or just making the drain too much?
"Welcome to Shadowrun, where the biggest obstacle is you!"

Michael Chandra

  • *
  • Catalyst Demo Team
  • Prime Runner
  • ***
  • Posts: 8032
  • Question-slicing ninja
« Reply #20 on: (23:47:15/07-08-19) »
Drain is more average, you get less services and Edge gains you less so you can't easily cancel out bad Drain rolls. No Binding but instead summoning multiple spirits means you can't go crazy in downtime for a massive army either.

I suspect 3xF4+1xF6 will become a default tactic.
CorpSec when an alarm is triggered;: "This is so sad, Alexa play Shoot The Runner"

« Reply #21 on: (10:14:06/07-09-19) »
Given the large variety of gear-stats, I don't think gear is as modular as Spells are. But if we get customization options, I will greatly enjoy those in HeroLab Online.

Gear also has the complicating factors of availability and cost. It's much more plugged into the game systems wise so unless they've really standardized NuYen costs gear making rules would just be like, a spread of text in a given book going over rough guidelines and so on.

Finstersang

  • *
  • Omae
  • ***
  • Posts: 351
« Reply #22 on: (10:47:03/07-09-19) »
Drain is more average, you get less services and Edge gains you less so you can't easily cancel out bad Drain rolls. No Binding but instead summoning multiple spirits means you can't go crazy in downtime for a massive army either.

I suspect 3xF4+1xF6 will become a default tactic.

So thatīs 4 additional Combatants, without any material costs, that can practically teleport around the battlefield and (at least) one of which brings about the same power to the table as an average Streetsam. How is that even remotely considered balanced? Not to mention the hassle of managing the additional Initiative Scores, Condition monitors and Edge Pools. And not to mention that Spirits still have their Immunity against normal weapons, while Metas, Critters and Drones only have magical origami Armor.

What Spiritrun needed was a significant reduction in power (and also, a higher incentive for good roleplaying). Instead, it gets a pat on the back.
« Last Edit: (11:51:09/07-09-19) by Finstersang »
SR5 Summoners in a Nutshell: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zFuMpYTyRjw

Lormyr

  • *
  • Catalyst Demo Team
  • Chummer
  • ***
  • Posts: 210
« Reply #23 on: (12:27:42/07-09-19) »
Having finally had a chance to read SR6 in it's entirety, and without getting myself in trouble, my take:

- Defensively, magic got toned WAY down.
- Offensively, it is less overbearing at the low to mid tier. God mages will still annihilate everything late game that does not also have a god mage to neutralize them.
- Spirit summoning is even stronger overall, both in terms of minion count/power, and the lower damage averages vs. hardened armor making them even tougher than before.

Stainless Steel Devil Rat

  • *
  • Errata Team
  • Ace Runner
  • ***
  • Posts: 1928
« Reply #24 on: (13:20:39/07-09-19) »
Spirits weren't balanced in 5e.  Well, low force ones were, but why ever summon anything less than 6 force in 5e.  Less than 9 force, really.

I've got some slim hope that the balance ends up being slightly corrected... but it might be more likely it just ends up being exacerbated instead.
RPG mechanics exist to give structure and consistency to the game world, true, but at the end of the day, youíre fighting dragons with algebra and random number generators.

Michael Chandra

  • *
  • Catalyst Demo Team
  • Prime Runner
  • ***
  • Posts: 8032
  • Question-slicing ninja
« Reply #25 on: (13:34:40/07-09-19) »
Given how much more Edge it costs to safely summon higher ones, how less services you get from them and that you can't prepare a whole bunch in downtime through Binding anymore, I'm less worried myself. Especially since the key to any Spirit is still: Geek the mage.

As for minion count/power: I've seen what an army of 9 Force 8 Spirits can do. That possibility is gone now. So I don't think that got worse.
CorpSec when an alarm is triggered;: "This is so sad, Alexa play Shoot The Runner"

Shinobi Killfist

  • *
  • Ace Runner
  • ****
  • Posts: 1982
« Reply #26 on: (14:49:29/07-09-19) »
Having finally had a chance to read SR6 in it's entirety, and without getting myself in trouble, my take:

- Defensively, magic got toned WAY down.
- Offensively, it is less overbearing at the low to mid tier. God mages will still annihilate everything late game that does not also have a god mage to neutralize them.
- Spirit summoning is even stronger overall, both in terms of minion count/power, and the lower damage averages vs. hardened armor making them even tougher than before.

Given that spirits were the most broken part of 5e even if itís a wash and not more powerful thatís pretty bad. From what had been released it does sound more powerful. Also setting wise Iím not seeing the value add in removing binding. Iím sure they will have  story point x explaining why but it doesnít seem to be a value add. Hell Iíd of preferred ditching summoning instead of binding. On the fly has always been more powerful than hypothetical  spirit army.

Iím not sure Iíve seen powerful defensive magic since like 2e, useful but not super powerful. But I guess any little bit of nerfing helps a.

Marcus

  • *
  • Prime Runner
  • *****
  • Posts: 2661
  • Success always demands a greater effort.
« Reply #27 on: (14:52:24/07-09-19) »
Spirits weren't balanced in 5e.  Well, low force ones were, but why ever summon anything less than 6 force in 5e.  Less than 9 force, really.

I've got some slim hope that the balance ends up being slightly corrected... but it might be more likely it just ends up being exacerbated instead.

It was easier to hurt spirits in 5e then any previous edition. Given how soak works in 6e I strongly suspect spirits will be unstoppable in 6e.
*Play-by-Post color guide*
Thinking
com
speaking

Stainless Steel Devil Rat

  • *
  • Errata Team
  • Ace Runner
  • ***
  • Posts: 1928
« Reply #28 on: (15:28:06/07-09-19) »
Spirits weren't balanced in 5e.  Well, low force ones were, but why ever summon anything less than 6 force in 5e.  Less than 9 force, really.

I've got some slim hope that the balance ends up being slightly corrected... but it might be more likely it just ends up being exacerbated instead.

It was easier to hurt spirits in 5e then any previous edition. Given how soak works in 6e I strongly suspect spirits will be unstoppable in 6e.

Unless/until Blight is legal in 6e, yes high force spirits will probably be largely unstoppable.  However since it costs way more edge to reroll failures, and you can only spend edge on the summoning OR the drain, I have my hopes that higher force spirits, despite potentially being even better in 6e than in 5e (for lots of reasons, not just lower DV vs ItNW), they still may end up being more rarely employed than lower <6 Force spirits.
« Last Edit: (15:35:53/07-09-19) by Stainless Steel Devil Rat »
RPG mechanics exist to give structure and consistency to the game world, true, but at the end of the day, youíre fighting dragons with algebra and random number generators.

Marcus

  • *
  • Prime Runner
  • *****
  • Posts: 2661
  • Success always demands a greater effort.
« Reply #29 on: (15:53:12/07-09-19) »
I think your missing a point SSDR. If a force 4 is now as unstoppable as a force 8 or 12 was in 5e, assuming pools are even kinda close to what they were in 5e, re-rolling won't be needed.
*Play-by-Post color guide*
Thinking
com
speaking