NEWS

Higher Force Power Focus

  • 10 Replies
  • 326 Views

cartejos

  • *
  • Newb
  • *
  • Posts: 1
« on: (14:30:57/06-24-19) »
So in Step 5 of Artificing, you make an Artificing+Magic test with a limit of the focus formulas force, if I'm reading the check correctly, which is opposed by the formulas force+object resistance.

Say you're attempting to craft a Force 12 Power Focus, this means you're at max going to get 12 hits opposed by 15 dice (minimum), and the Foci's final force is your net hits.

Am I wrong somewhere or would it be impossible to craft a force 12 focus?
Does having helpers raise the limit? Is that why it's so important that a few magicians get together to create foci?

Michael Chandra

  • *
  • Catalyst Demo Team
  • Prime Runner
  • ***
  • Posts: 8298
  • Question-slicing ninja
« Reply #1 on: (15:19:54/06-24-19) »
To try that formula you'd have to be Magic 12 anyway, no? And I doubt anyone even needs a Focus at that level.

Anyway: You can only craft inside a Magical Lodge. A Lodge counts as a positive Background Count, so raises all your magical skill limits with its Force. So if you have F12 and are trying to create a Force 12 Focus in a Force 12 Lodge, your limit is 24.

And I guess technically there's no rules against teamwork tests, which both helps with hits and limit.
CorpSec when an alarm is triggered;: "This is so sad, Alexa play Shoot The Runner"

mbisber

  • *
  • Newb
  • *
  • Posts: 72
« Reply #2 on: (16:44:31/06-24-19) »
Do you really want a Force 12 Power Focus? Does your character already have Masking?

You might want to look at Extended Masking, p.149 of Street Grimoire. To mask this Focus you would need to be Magic 13.

Kiirnodel

  • *
  • Catalyst Demo Team
  • Ace Runner
  • ***
  • Posts: 1468
« Reply #3 on: (02:32:45/06-25-19) »
To try that formula you'd have to be Magic 12 anyway, no? And I doubt anyone even needs a Focus at that level.

Anyway: You can only craft inside a Magical Lodge. A Lodge counts as a positive Background Count, so raises all your magical skill limits with its Force. So if you have F12 and are trying to create a Force 12 Focus in a Force 12 Lodge, your limit is 24.

And I guess technically there's no rules against teamwork tests, which both helps with hits and limit.

The background count of a magical lodge has been disputed quite heavily. The rules say that a lodge aspects the background to the creator, it never says that it creates a background with a count equal to the rating of the lodge.

Under that interpretation, a Rating 13 lodge would be lethal, even to its creator.

markelphoenix

  • *
  • Omae
  • ***
  • Posts: 255
« Reply #4 on: (06:54:03/08-20-19) »
To try that formula you'd have to be Magic 12 anyway, no? And I doubt anyone even needs a Focus at that level.

Anyway: You can only craft inside a Magical Lodge. A Lodge counts as a positive Background Count, so raises all your magical skill limits with its Force. So if you have F12 and are trying to create a Force 12 Focus in a Force 12 Lodge, your limit is 24.

And I guess technically there's no rules against teamwork tests, which both helps with hits and limit.

The background count of a magical lodge has been disputed quite heavily. The rules say that a lodge aspects the background to the creator, it never says that it creates a background with a count equal to the rating of the lodge.

Under that interpretation, a Rating 13 lodge would be lethal, even to its creator.

Why would a positive background count be lethal to it's tradition?

Michael Chandra

  • *
  • Catalyst Demo Team
  • Prime Runner
  • ***
  • Posts: 8298
  • Question-slicing ninja
« Reply #5 on: (06:58:14/08-20-19) »
A rating 13+ Background count, no matter whether positive or negative, inflicts constant damage to magic people.
CorpSec when an alarm is triggered;: "This is so sad, Alexa play Shoot The Runner"

Kiirnodel

  • *
  • Catalyst Demo Team
  • Ace Runner
  • ***
  • Posts: 1468
« Reply #6 on: (15:00:31/08-21-19) »
A rating 13+ Background count, no matter whether positive or negative, inflicts constant damage to magic people.

To clarify, it only damages you if you are currently magically active. Although, performing a ritual would no doubt count.

By the way, I've done an inordinate amount of searching into it recently. Aside from the text in "how mana aspects" citing that a magical lodge is aspected to its creator or the creator's tradition, I found no evidence to support the idea that a magical lodge creates a background on its own OR that it would create a background with a count equal to the Force of the lodge.

Would anyone like to chime in with a source for this idea?

And please don't try to tell me something like "it doesn't say it doesn't use the lodge's Force as the count."

KatoHearts

  • *
  • Newb
  • *
  • Posts: 55
« Reply #7 on: (15:06:28/08-21-19) »
It makes more sense that way as otherwise you get mages going to worse areas to aspect the background for their uses.

Michael Chandra

  • *
  • Catalyst Demo Team
  • Prime Runner
  • ***
  • Posts: 8298
  • Question-slicing ninja
« Reply #8 on: (17:31:25/08-21-19) »
I guess I'd go the acclimatisation way in my own playground (slowly accumulate BC, to a max of F/2 or 3, whichever's lowest), but yeah, it never does say how heavy and I dug through that entire section to check after your previous correction to my post. :<
CorpSec when an alarm is triggered;: "This is so sad, Alexa play Shoot The Runner"

Typhus

  • *
  • Chummer
  • **
  • Posts: 170
« Reply #9 on: (18:25:49/08-21-19) »
I had to go look up artificing.  Wow.  The process is so ridiculous I am at table-flip levels after reading it through.

Your attempt to make a focus is now resisted by the focus for some reason.

You then not only have to get NET hits equal to the Force you wanted, and if not you get a less potent focus than you wanted.

You also might pass out of from the drain, if it's high enough of a Force, thereby aborting your attempt, as written.

Oh, and if you critically glitch, you lose a point of Essence?! 

To heck with ever making things as a character, I'll buy it pre-made from a talismonger.     

I'll spare you all my rant here.  Assume I am cursing like a cybersailor at my screen.  By all means, someone feel free to justify this one. 

Typhus

  • *
  • Chummer
  • **
  • Posts: 170
« Reply #10 on: (00:19:41/08-22-19) »
OK, after doing some research, I now see that apparently this mess of a system first appeared in 5E, and this part the game has been in this state for ~6 years, including the loss of Essence risk.  Enchanting went from a harmless downtime activity to a total mess in 5E.  6E is actually just another sloppy copy pasta of 5E text. 

Sorry, as you can tell, I never played 5E, so this is a stunner to me.  Enchanting never caused drain prior to that, and it's pointless rule to have it happen with Enchanting in general.  The use of the loss of Essence as a possible risk is beyond wildly inappropriate considering what Essence represents.  It also fundamentally alters how magic works for enchanting and to no good end.   This is *not* how you constrain power creep in any game. 

Again, I apologize for being late to something that may already have been talked about, but lord have mercy.  It's totally abusive to players for the crime of a single bad die roll. It's archaic as game design goes, and clearly yeeted in here as an afterthought, as though all was fine with it, tone deaf to the shift in gaming philosophy happening in the world right now.  This game has no heart left in it, no love in it's pages, and no soul at this point. 

I think I am probably done trying to offer any thoughts or advice on this forum.  SR needs an extraction from Catalyst.  On rethinking, please do NOT try to justify the enchanting mess to me.  I probably won't be here to answer, which is for the best.  There's enough heat going around without me blowing another gasket. 

Thanks for the conversations.  I appreciate even the opinions I don't share.

I'll see myself out.