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Buying off a negative quality at chargen?

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Ghost Rigger

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« Reply #15 on: <02-15-19/2021:37> »
Well, remember that shifters are not people that turn into animals, they are animals that turn into people. Meaning they have, unless something else happens, an animal's lifespan. The average lifespan of a wolf in the wild is 6-8 years. So you're talking about someone that may be only 2-3 years old.
That average is skewed downwards by individuals that don't survive to adulthood; among individuals that do make it to adulthood, you'll find longer average lifespans.
After all you don't send an electrician to fix your leaking toilet.

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Mirikon

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« Reply #16 on: <02-15-19/2136:02> »
Sure thematically a shifter having a NQ called uneducated makes sense. The design of that NQ pretty much makes it make absolutely no sense at all for anyone.
No, it makes it undesirable and a problem for anyone. It makes it a quality that no one would pick if it were not part of the racial traits, and that most will buy off as soon as they possibly can. But it is something that makes sense, and needs to be bought off. Buying off that quality or living with the consequences is part of the balancing act for shifters having abilities metahumans do not.
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Shinobi Killfist

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« Reply #17 on: <02-15-19/2151:47> »
Sure thematically a shifter having a NQ called uneducated makes sense. The design of that NQ pretty much makes it make absolutely no sense at all for anyone.
No, it makes it undesirable and a problem for anyone. It makes it a quality that no one would pick if it were not part of the racial traits, and that most will buy off as soon as they possibly can. But it is something that makes sense, and needs to be bought off. Buying off that quality or living with the consequences is part of the balancing act for shifters having abilities metahumans do not.

I disagree, the quality makes 0 sense at all in how it is written. After 1 freaking day in town you almost assuredly pick up enough to make a random ass guess on a technical skill you have been bumping into but not have a skill of 1.  Being unable to default makes 0 sense.  Its not just undesirable its so absurd it stretches credulity. People don't instantly move from completely unaware to some level of skill. If they dropped the unaware part it could work, maybe add a increased chance to glitch or something.  The design of the NQ just does not make sense. 

And if its a quality that no one would pick it shouldn't exist in the main book well before shifters came out as an option.

Reaver

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« Reply #18 on: <02-15-19/2208:36> »
Sure thematically a shifter having a NQ called uneducated makes sense. The design of that NQ pretty much makes it make absolutely no sense at all for anyone.
No, it makes it undesirable and a problem for anyone. It makes it a quality that no one would pick if it were not part of the racial traits, and that most will buy off as soon as they possibly can. But it is something that makes sense, and needs to be bought off. Buying off that quality or living with the consequences is part of the balancing act for shifters having abilities metahumans do not.

I disagree, the quality makes 0 sense at all in how it is written. After 1 freaking day in town you almost assuredly pick up enough to make a random ass guess on a technical skill you have been bumping into but not have a skill of 1.  Being unable to default makes 0 sense.  Its not just undesirable its so absurd it stretches credulity. People don't instantly move from completely unaware to some level of skill. If they dropped the unaware part it could work, maybe add a increased chance to glitch or something.  The design of the NQ just does not make sense. 

And if its a quality that no one would pick it shouldn't exist in the main book well before shifters came out as an option.


My experience says otherwise.

This isn't going to be what people want to hear, but well, its born from over 6 years experience working throughout the African continent in 8 different countries from 1999 to 2008.
This is was in part through the UN plan to reduce poverty world wide by 50% by 2020. (achieved last year!) through partnerships with private industries and developing nations where the UN would pay for the "training and education of workers for sustainable jobs, wages and education". The idea was for large resource development programs to hire a mix of trained industrial workers and engineers to build the infrastructure and at the same time train the local populations to take over and maintain them...

And while the first part of the problem as been achieved (the reduction of overall poverty), the second probably won't be achievable for several more generations. And that is because the general educational gap found in Africa to that of the industrialized  world. And that will take more time then 18 years to fix, as it will take a shift in social attitudes that can't just be dismissed, or legislated from half way around the world.

To put it more bluntly; I could take a group of Africans and turn them into a very proficient labor force that could install electrical equipment like no-one's business! But understanding exactly why a size of cable, or the wraps for a transformer, or the even the HOWS of electrical generation would be met with laughter, smirks, and ridicule. After all, that was the realm of the Djinn, Owabutqa, and Sam-Qreal. (Basically fantasy monsters).



Yea your Shifter might figure out how to operate a cross walk sign... But how about even a search function of a Commlink? Would it even understand the concept of a Commlink??? ("you mean that little funny rock talks to you, shows you pictures in your head, and tells you everything you want to know??? Yea suuuurrrrreeee buddy.")

You are taking for granted a whole lot of information and education that something that isn't even human just wouldn't have access to... Let alone the differences in sociology, and culture across the species.... Does your Dog shifter get offended when I don't try to smell his ass?  Does he get offended when I punch his lights out for trying to smell MY ass?

***And, yes, your Canine Shifter (or coyote or Wolf) tries to smell everyone's ass... its a Dog thing. You know its true... you just don't want to admit it because its embarrasing and, well, you don't really want to play a shifter who is an ANIMAL that turns into a metahuman, you want to play a METAHUMAN that turns into an animal.


**(Directed at no one in particular, just addressing an underlying and ongoing theme to all Shifter threads)
« Last Edit: <02-15-19/2241:50> by Reaver »
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Kiirnodel

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« Reply #19 on: <02-16-19/0308:57> »
I agree with Reaver, the Uneducated quality works for what it is.

The part you might be over-analyzing is what might be considered a skill test. If a character has been "bumping into" some sort of technical skill over the course of a day or two, A) they have had enough time to learn the skill to rank 1, and B) they might know how to duplicate one or two "functions" of technology that wouldn't normally need a skill test.

An uneducated character that has been handed a commlink, told enough about what it is and what it could be used for, might be able to do things like turn it on, answer a call, or even open up an app (like to play music or something). These are all things that normally don't require a test at all, but a person might be able to intuit or mimic after being shown how to do it. And as a GM, I might even allow some of those basic functions without requiring a roll, but if the character is stressed or pressed for time, I would totally have them roll a Logic or Intuition test to see if they can properly answer that incoming call.

And if the person is putting in the effort to really learn how to use that device, then yeah, they are devoting that karma to learning the skill. What the uneducated quality does is makes it more difficult to learn these skills (because you lack the supportive knowledge background to build from) and makes it impossible to just wing it without any direction whatsoever. You CAN learn the skills, it is just more difficult.

Also worth noting, Uneducated only increases the Karma cost. If you want to make an Uneducated character that has picked up some basic skills in some technical skills, like Navigation and Computers, you can. If you spend skill points from your Skill Priority so that they don't have to worry about not being able to default, it doesn't cost any extra there.

Mirikon

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« Reply #20 on: <02-16-19/1833:32> »
Kiir and Reaver are correct.

And not everything in the book is there for players, Shinobi.
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