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SRM Combined FAQ 1.2 Discussion

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Hobbes

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« Reply #30 on: (09:53:33/12-01-18) »
You might have to issue a "for SRM purposes" edit to the criteria for what cyberware does and doesn't count as eligible for greyware availability... because After all every bit of cyberware can be descriptively obvious and everything has a wireless component.

To add to this, you'll want to explicitly state it's available at char gen if you actually want it to be used.

prophet42

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« Reply #31 on: (09:28:37/12-02-18) »
Also, so far as Missions go, how does this work for the Meet-n-Greet with Tanaka-san?

Will the chair-bound runner get factored in on the pay-off if they're not actually present?

For Neo-Tokyo, you go to the meet with Tanaka-San. The only allowable exception is if the player is late to the table.

It's not that hard to fit a wheelchair-bound PC into a meet. Even less hard for a Matrix Persona being present in AR.

So long as the runner's actually there at the meet, I don't see it being an issue.

Was commenting more on those folks who never want to send their meat-sack outside of their room/car/etc.
  (though I get that an AR meet-n-greet means that's hardly an issue).
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Stainless Steel Devil Rat

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« Reply #32 on: (14:12:28/12-14-18) »
Something that's been bugging me (for like a year now, so way before Neo-Tokyo) is the ability for min-maxed PCs to summon high force spirits that trivialize the opposition/difficulty level written for an assumption of "reasonable" PC power levels. And not just as a some-time GM; as a player it kinda sucks to have your character's specialty  be outshone by the Mystic Adept Jack-of-All-Trades-And-Master-of-Them-All-Just-Because-I-Can-Summon-A-Spirit-That-Does-Your-Niche-Better-Than-You-Do.  (That's a LARGE part of why I played a Decker in Chicago; it's the one thing high force spirits don't do better than a PC)

I saw before that support was expressed for the idea of spirits potentially spending edge to oppose the summoning roll.  I've been playing that way for a while now (if you edge the summoning roll, the spirit edges the resistance roll) but all it's done is generate slightly tougher soak rolls; players still aren't summoning anything lower than F9. In looking for ways to de-incentivize high force spirits (without that way inadvertently doing the opposite), I was thinking what about having anything above F6 pre-edge the opposed portion of a conjuring test? I'm pretty sure players would HATE that, though, and rightly see it as just being a way to kick their effectiveness down.

The Magic Surveillance portion of section 4 of the FAQ was kind of eye-opening; I never really scrutinized it before. It gives the GM two 'loopholes' that are in effect all-inclusive with regards to blessing some punishment being meted out on magic.  1) Any magic at all "at the GM's discretion" and 2) that punishment can be in effect anything, with but one example being the opposed Edge vs Force test to see if the Cops astrally spy on your shenanigans.

It seems to me that having F9 spirits (yes, plural) each sustaining multiple Force 6+ attribute buffs seems like the exact sort of thing that should be attracting all the wrong kinds of attention while in Neo-Tokyo. Basically, I don't think I need to punish summoning spirits of a force I arbitrarily deem "too high level for a standard of reasonableness" because there are unlimited tools available for punishing use of said spirits.  Hell, the standard "ok summoning before we go to the meet with Tanaka-san so the spirits can boost our attributes" tradition could easily be ended if NTMP follows them to the meet and arresting everyone present for conspiracy to commit shadowrunning.  It's not a home game so the NPCs will always still be willing to meet and offer jobs to runners who can't keep from attracting NTMP to the meets, but the ever-building notoriety and public awareness is still a thing in SRM.

All that rambling said, I'm curious about my SRM play experience due to the small pond sample size.  Are multiple high force spirits the norm at other people's tables, or is my group something of an outlier in their reliance on using them?

« Last Edit: (14:15:17/12-14-18) by Stainless Steel Devil Rat »
RPG mechanics exist to give structure and consistency to the game world, true, but at the end of the day, you’re fighting dragons with algebra and random number generators.

Michael Chandra

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« Reply #33 on: (02:14:09/12-15-18) »
I disagree with countering Edge with Edge, and think any kind of oversummoning should simply face Edge. It's how I also ran it in my home game, unless they had a really good excuse to convince the spirit. (Such as a handcrafted dram of Orichalcum...)
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Lormyr

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« Reply #34 on: (06:30:05/12-15-18) »
Strictly for game balance purposes, I believe that one should not be able to summon a spirit with greater force than their magic rating.

But that rules bit aside? Our locals oversummon all the time. Some of our older characters with titanic drain resistance pools frequently summon spirits of Force 15+.

As a GM, I never experienced nor understood the trivializing my baddies frustration. As long as my players are having fun, get on with your bad selves and steamroll those baddies!

If a player's actions are causing other players to have diminished fun though, that is a concern. One that I have often found is easily resolved with a polite request to rein it in so that the rest of the table to participate too.

One thing to keep in mind with the Neo-Tokyo Magic Surveillance portion of the FAQ is that those activities usually garner attention - not automatic punishment. So your mage has a Force 9 spirit strolling around with him, sustaining multiple spells? Is that unusual enough to warrant a patrol stopping by? Sure. But if that mage passes his SIN check, and has a license for summoning and those magic types? He's free to go unless entering some kind of restricted area.

It is a very fine line between punishing players for intelligently using their character's resources (not cool), and punishing characters for not bothering with licenses, being sloppy, causing collateral damage, and/or openly flaunting the law such as carrying firearms (totally cool).

Michael Chandra

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« Reply #35 on: (19:31:09/12-15-18) »
But that rules bit aside? Our locals oversummon all the time. Some of our older characters with titanic drain resistance pools frequently summon spirits of Force 15+.
Sounds like a good reason to make oversummoning always trigger Edge as base Missions rule. Because under Edge, a Force 8 spirit already produces almost as much drain as a F15 without. A Force 10 edging would be producing an average of 12 drain vs 10 of the F15. If players can just tune out F15 without thinking, obviously it's creating a discrepancy between groups and everything.

(MATH: Run the following on anydice to compare:
Code: [Select]
W: {
0: 2592,
1: 1080,
2: 180,
3: 30,
4: 5,
5: 1}

output 12dW*2
output 15d{0,0,2}
)
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Jayde Moon

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« Reply #36 on: (20:20:54/12-15-18) »
We're not really interested in putting an additional arbitrary cap on spirit summoning.  This is not a problem everywhere and where it is, GMs need to work with the players to mitigate potential issues.
That's just like... your opinion, man.

Marcus

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« Reply #37 on: (19:53:34/12-16-18) »
Edging summoning is perfectly valid. If your players are trivializing, content by high force, ether raise the difficulty or lower spirit services with pre and post edge or both.  The mods have the flexibility for a reason use it.
 
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Stainless Steel Devil Rat

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« Reply #38 on: (17:02:05/01-18-19) »
New order of business:

On the topic of spell preparations SRM came up.

Binding spirits has an exception to the "you must buy hits" rule due in part to the bad odds of having to resist twice the force. 

Making alchemical preparations has the same issue.  And with a Vault of Ages (legal for SRM play per the FA section of the SRM FAQ) they have potentially indefinite shelf lives, which renders the process relevant as a downtime activity.

So, should making preparations get a pass on the requirement to buy hits during downtime, as binding spirits does?
« Last Edit: (17:10:15/01-18-19) by Stainless Steel Devil Rat »
RPG mechanics exist to give structure and consistency to the game world, true, but at the end of the day, you’re fighting dragons with algebra and random number generators.

Hobbes

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« Reply #39 on: (21:41:29/01-18-19) »
Solid question. 

Possible counter argument, Alchemy preps are easy to make during a run so if you want to roll dice you can. 

And if you're going to roll dice for Alchemy preps during down time.... 8 hours a day, 7 days...3360 Force worth of attempts.  560 Force 6 attempts where you pick and choose the best.  Total jerk move that any GM would stop of course.  But, you've got a week, what else you gonna do.

And really, anyway, if you've got an hour before the meet you can probably fill up your vault...

Stainless Steel Devil Rat

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« Reply #40 on: (22:02:47/01-18-19) »
Yeah I was mistaken when I made the post here... Alchemy rolls against F not F x 2. So it's not in the same discussion with Binding Spirits, really.

Might be wisest after all, even with a Vault, to require bought hits during downtime.
RPG mechanics exist to give structure and consistency to the game world, true, but at the end of the day, you’re fighting dragons with algebra and random number generators.

Stainless Steel Devil Rat

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« Reply #41 on: (15:23:28/01-28-19) »
V1.3 is available at the SRM Missions Facebook page.
RPG mechanics exist to give structure and consistency to the game world, true, but at the end of the day, you’re fighting dragons with algebra and random number generators.