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SRM FAQ 1.3 Discussion

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Stainless Steel Devil Rat

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« Reply #30 on: (12:33:45/01-31-19) »
...
Blight is just gonna end them even faster, and make having a mage less critical.

I agree with Marcus.

It's not mage-hate when I say that not having to rely on having a magician in the team is a good thing for game balance.  Not only do spirits no longer take out NPCs all by themselves, neither do players need a mage to answer a hostile spirit. Those are BOTH good things for game balance.

It's like Kill Code giving us Looper Bullets.  Yeah a decker may resent not being necessary for hacking cameras, but it's good for the overall game that you're not dependent on having a decker around.  And blight now removes the requirement that someone play a magician!
« Last Edit: (12:37:03/01-31-19) by Stainless Steel Devil Rat »

Hobbes

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« Reply #31 on: (21:45:08/01-31-19) »
Im not sure i get your point Hobbes? The same can be said for most every fight SR. Magic or not. It's just more true with magic.

Blight is just gonna end them even faster, and make having a mage less critical.

Blight does nothing until the second turn.  A boss mage like The Founder from Gone Long Gone (just to pick one) is going to blast out 3 Edge fueled Spells by then.  There are very few characters that will be around after that.  IME, Mages with a high edge with lots of Spirits around sometimes get a second spell off.  It's usually, Mage tries to seize initiative, PCs with Edge left try to seize initiative, anyone who can takes a shot at the mage, mage throws a big spell, entire team takes a shot at the mage.  Sometimes a second spell gets cast, mage goes down. 

I don't see Blight changing that  : )

I can only think of a handful of times there was a meaningful second turn of Combat in a Missions game I ran or played.  You're better off doing damage RIGHT NOW to drop the mage (or force Edge to be spent) than in some theoretical second turn. 

Just my experience.  Clearly YMMV.   :P

Lormyr

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« Reply #32 on: (07:27:53/02-01-19) »
@Blight

I think Blight is pretty silly in terms of game mechanics (but not concept), but that said, it is also fairly easily mitigated by characters with a bit of karma. Chemical seal negates the DMSO delivery, and quickened combat sense + deflection means most attack rolls with an injection device will be avoided. Even if struck, body + willpower + quickened prophylaxis + antidote spell + antidote patch + natural immunity (if a mystic adept) + ect. makes fully soaking the power 12 quite feasible after 60 karma or so, and a near certainty at mid to late career.

I understand that not all players build their characters that way, but just my personal observations.

@Hobbes

The Founder did have his Magic and Edge (appropriately!) adjusted in the FAQ, but he still packs one of the highest dice pools I've seen on a Missions NPC. That said, while I agree with your general sentiment, I have found that it rarely actually works out that way except with inexperienced players and/or low karma PCs. Run for your life has really taken the bite out of aoe effects. Factor in one of those negates a spell, counterspelling makes resisting the second spell feasible, and then you really only have to deal with one.

Fedifensor

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« Reply #33 on: (09:38:50/02-01-19) »
I think Blight is pretty silly in terms of game mechanics (but not concept), but that said, it is also fairly easily mitigated by characters with a bit of karma. Chemical seal negates the DMSO delivery,
How many characters can walk down the street in armor that is eligible for a chemical seal without drawing attention from law enforcement?  Can you con your way past guards in a facility while wearing that armor?  Not every op allows you to put on full body armor or another type of sealed suit.


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and quickened combat sense + deflection means most attack rolls with an injection device will be avoided. Even if struck, body + willpower + quickened prophylaxis + antidote spell + antidote patch + natural immunity (if a mystic adept) + ect. makes fully soaking the power 12 quite feasible after 60 karma or so, and a near certainty at mid to late career.

I understand that not all players build their characters that way, but just my personal observations.
I would wager that the majority of characters aren't built that way, and several of the ones that are either have an immense amount of Karma, or haven't faced the natural consequences of walking around with multiple quickened spells.  Unless you're using Enhanced Masking, those quickened spells are going to be obvious, which makes covert missions significantly harder.  You're also going to have to get through magical barriers at some point in your career.  Not to mention, there are other types of magical characters besides mystic adepts.  Physical adepts, technomancers, specialist mages...there are a lot of people that can't build to defend against Blight in the way you describe. 


Regardless, characters shouldn't have to be built in one specific way because a single item was added to the game. There are mages and mystic adepts that build to a theme instead of min-maxing...and it would be a shame to drive them away from the campaign.


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The Founder did have his Magic and Edge (appropriately!) adjusted in the FAQ, but he still packs one of the highest dice pools I've seen on a Missions NPC. That said, while I agree with your general sentiment, I have found that it rarely actually works out that way except with inexperienced players and/or low karma PCs. Run for your life has really taken the bite out of aoe effects. Factor in one of those negates a spell, counterspelling makes resisting the second spell feasible, and then you really only have to deal with one.
Nearly every convention I've played at has at least one, if not multiple inexperienced players and/or low Karma PCs.  They're the ones most likely to stop playing if they get hit with a squirt gun and told "sorry, all of your magic is gone".


Regarding Run For Your Life...having an entire group burn an action at the cost of one mage's action is a good investment.  One character shouldn't be able to solo an entire encounter simply because he can get his AoE big enough to hit every opponent.  When people burn actions to jump out of the way, it allows the other characters a chance to act.

Marcus

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« Reply #34 on: (10:55:32/02-01-19) »
Your point is a good one Hobbes. But it's also something that can be planned around.  Get'em from large range and force a movement turn. I think Lormyr is also  good one, as SSRD says we need clarification. On how it takes eff3ct. Further the binary magic on or off is kinda lacking drama perhaps massive internal penalty to casting might be a better solution?
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Lormyr

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« Reply #35 on: (10:59:12/02-01-19) »
One thing to remember is that this conversation is specifically in the context of Missions play, or at least my portion was. In a home setting, things have a lot more room to be custom tailored. In Missions, characters making foolish choices and/or not having appropriate licenses is (and should be) the primary barrier to being allowed to stroll around with the (insert thing here). Rolling down the street in a diving suit would definitely be odd, but it is not illegal at all. The same is true of quickened spells if you have your licenses. But sure, I agree, a chem seal article will not always be available or the best idea.

Unless you were referring to assensing, very few buff-related spells have an obvious effect. Prophylaxis is certainly not one of them. Element aura, armor, ect. are the primary culprits with a visible effect.

Mana barriers are problematic when subtlety is preferred. I also think that is perfectly acceptable. My Chicago mystic adept had a lot of stuff quickened on himself, and sometimes that meant I would sit out a portion of a Mission to not cause alarm, but this honestly didn't happen often. Many of the times we dealt with mana barriers it was boiling down to a fight anyhow. Rating 6 SIN and appropriate magic licenses got me through most of the "why the hell do you have so much magic on yourself walking down the street?" situations, but then again that character also ended with a 9 public awareness.

Personally, I had prophylaxis and natural immunity long before blight was a thing anyhow, because toxins in general are awful to resist. That's just my personal play style though, and there is nothing wrong with not taking that approach.

I don't disagree about run for your life. I just think the better game mechanic would have been to allow defense rolls vs. aoe instead of the convoluted work around. Then it wouldn't be necessary.

Fedifensor

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« Reply #36 on: (11:27:52/02-01-19) »
One thing to remember is that this conversation is specifically in the context of Missions play, or at least my portion was. In a home setting, things have a lot more room to be custom tailored. In Missions, characters making foolish choices and/or not having appropriate licenses is (and should be) the primary barrier to being allowed to stroll around with the (insert thing here). Rolling down the street in a diving suit would definitely be odd, but it is not illegal at all. The same is true of quickened spells if you have your licenses. But sure, I agree, a chem seal article will not always be available or the best idea.

Unless you were referring to assensing, very few buff-related spells have an obvious effect. Prophylaxis is certainly not one of them. Element aura, armor, ect. are the primary culprits with a visible effect.
One thing to keep in mind is that while there are still many Missions players in Chicago games, the new campaign is in Neo-Tokyo.  The NTMP has nearly omnipresent surveillance, both mundane and magical.  Awakened people are a small subset of the population, and those who can cast quickened spells (which means they have initiated for that specific purpose) are a small subset of that subset.  The FAQ states that "other uses of magic at the discretion of the GM" may garner attention from astral surveillance, and I consider quickened spells to fall in that category. 


Any competent security force who has astral surveillance should flag those with quickened spells, and it should be in the instructions given to watcher spirits.  Having the player make an Edge check (as stated in the FAQ) seems a reasonable response, which means eventually an astrally-projecting mage will come and investigate.  Where that goes depends on what the mage uncovers with assensing.  This means Enhanced Masking is a pretty valuable metamagic in Neo-Tokyo.

A failed Edge check and successful assessing doesn't mean the NTMP will arrest those individuals...they may not even confront them.  But they will keep tabs on where those individuals are, just as they would keep tabs on someone with 'legal' full body armor or a nodachi. 


Lormyr

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« Reply #37 on: (20:42:47/02-01-19) »
The strong surveillance of Neo-Tokyo is known. The same section you are quoting also explicitly spells out what officers do in response to suspicious activity (which I also agree wearing a chem seal in public or having more than a few quickened spells could easily fall under) - they do a SIN check, check licenses for restricted gear, confiscate forbidden items, and can potentially be smoothed over with an Etiquette roll and/or bribe from a police contact.

If the character has drawn attention but has no illegal items, passes their SIN check, has licenses for their quickened magic, and doesn't otherwise do anything foolish during a police check, I personally see no reason to penalize the player or character further. Drawing attention does not and should not equate to being constantly monitored afterward, especially if you have done nothing illegal. Specifically, as per the FAQ, magic is common in Neo-Tokyo, and simply using it may not be enough to garner attention.

YMMV.

Hobbes

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« Reply #38 on: (20:51:40/02-01-19) »

One thing to keep in mind is that while there are still many Missions players in Chicago games, the new campaign is in Neo-Tokyo. 

And all the CMPs...

And yeah, full suite of sustains is going to be an issue walking around in Neo-Tokyo.  As will large Spirits.  Not as in a "You're under Arrest" but you'll have a tough time pulling off anything sneaky with a NTMP watcher tagging along every time you leave the house. 

kyoto kid

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« Reply #39 on: (19:10:04/02-03-19) »
...so reading through the discussion on Blight, I wonder what effect it has on adepts, who usually have a much smaller drain pool (Body  + Willpower) as some adept powers involve resisting drain (like Adrenaline Surge and Attribute Boost). 

Don't have BTB yet.

As to Zapper rounds, my Decker Violet carries a couple clops for her Guardian.  Beat's having to shimmy up or be boosted up to an external camera to jack into it (or trying to beat a host + firewall pool) just to get into a facility.
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Stainless Steel Devil Rat

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« Reply #40 on: (20:01:51/02-03-19) »
...so reading through the discussion on Blight, I wonder what effect it has on adepts, who usually have a much smaller drain pool (Body  + Willpower) as some adept powers involve resisting drain (like Adrenaline Surge and Attribute Boost). 

Don't have BTB yet.

Adept drain is always BOD + WIL.  The standard toxin resistance test is the same dice pool so whichever vector they need 12 hits or they temporarily become a mundane.

OTOH adepts can buy immunity to specific toxins, so blight's not a bad choice at all.
« Last Edit: (20:04:35/02-03-19) by Stainless Steel Devil Rat »

Marcus

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« Reply #41 on: (10:33:38/02-04-19) »
Yeah it's fairly safe bet toxin immunity blight just made a huge jump up every adapts list.
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Stainless Steel Devil Rat

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« Reply #42 on: (11:48:38/02-04-19) »
Yeah it's fairly safe bet toxin immunity blight just made a huge jump up every adapts list.

I just was struck with a realization.... since blight is treated mechanically different when straight and mixed with DMSO, immunity to one may not carry offer to the other.

kyoto kid

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« Reply #43 on: (18:34:14/02-04-19) »
...so human adepts would the most vulnerable as the average drain pool is usually 8 - 9.  BGC (particularly in Chicago) is harsh enough on adepts who have much fewer options than a spellslinger to counter it, why did they have to introduce something like this that totally crocks them?

As to "carry over", I would think if the adept had the immunity to Blight it would still apply as that is the actual toxin  DMSO is only the vehicle for delivery and by itself not a true toxin.

@ Marcus  Indeed, the Kid will be getting it when she initiates again, as will my Mystic Adept, Wednesday.
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Hobbes

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« Reply #44 on: (19:43:53/02-04-19) »
Again, worth saying.  Consider the number of times a meaningful second round of combat has ever occurred.  It's likely a really small number.  And then figure the number of times a Mission writer will actually add an NPC with Blight.  It'll be some CMP along the lines of the Tennessee suites.

Just sayin.