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SRM FAQ 1.3 Discussion

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Jayde Moon

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« on: (16:29:28/01-28-19) »
With a new FAQ comes a new FAQ discussion thread.

Put it all down, so we can get you guys the best possible product!
That's just like... your opinion, man.

Stainless Steel Devil Rat

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« Reply #1 on: (16:33:07/01-28-19) »
1.  *cackles maniacally now that blight is explicitly legal*

2. I see that the SRM doc didn't address spending karma/street cred on lowering lifestyle costs* when discussing the New Uses for Karma and Street Cred section.  Since the format is "everything's in except what we say isn't in", it sounds like it's legal to spend both karma and/or street cred to for example lower one's High lifestyle cost from 10,000/mo to 5,000/mo?

*Edit: I missed that the discussion on New Uses for Karma and Street Cred carries over to another page.  It mentions lowering lifestyle costs in a very awkwardly worded way:

Quote
—and the risk
associated with lowering a Lifestyle Cost relies too much on GM fiat to feel fair if ever applied, so that rule is used
as well.

So the rule IS used?  Or that's supposed to say the rule IS NOT used in SRM?  I'm not even sure where the GM fiat/table variation would even come in to play on that rule anyway... you pay the karma/street cred price, and so long as you maintain that lifestyle you get the benefit.  SRM already makes us track calendars, seems like fiat/variation is the opposite of what the rule is using?
« Last Edit: (16:47:06/01-28-19) by Stainless Steel Devil Rat »
RPG mechanics exist to give structure and consistency to the game world, true, but at the end of the day, you’re fighting dragons with algebra and random number generators.

Jayde Moon

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« Reply #2 on: (16:49:02/01-28-19) »
That should be

Quote
... so that rule isn't used as well.

Good catch.
That's just like... your opinion, man.

Marcus

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« Reply #3 on: (18:22:58/01-28-19) »
Hey Jayde Moon I don't know if you have read the thread on it, but I need to put in the follow power for SRM consideration.

Boosted Attribute (Strength)- I'm putting this in for consideration, this powers wording is problematic, as it specifies dice pools and not ratings. The Counter argument currently in vogue is it adds to "Feats of strength", sadly for the counter argument, in point of fact raw strength rolls don't occur, Lift/Carry the roll to picking up heavy object is derived stat from Body+Str, and therefore not enhanced by the wording of BAS.  Which means this power is useless and needs to be clarified. Other variant of the same power (see Boosted Attribute Agility), directly contributing to damage, so we know the author didn't care if this power did add to damage. So I'm making the argument it needs to be errata'ed for BAS to specifically call out that it affect the damage rating that calculate their damage rating from strength (Most melee weapons, bows, thrown, unarmed etc). The power doesn't say it won't enhance damage rating and does say adds to the attribute. In the same way the BAB adds to soak, and BAR adds dodge and piloting. It just happens that those are direct pools.


On a different note I'm concerned about the negative quality Stolen Gear (No Future page 177). While I suspect the easy response is just to ban it, but as it's a cool quality, perhaps reducing the ether per point amount or capping the possible amount spent might be doable? I can certainly understand if that's to much trouble, and it just needs to be banned but I think it's a cool quality.


PS I love Candle in the Darkness please, please, please let that in! Thanks!
« Last Edit: (18:24:59/01-28-19) by Marcus »
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fseperent

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« Reply #4 on: (20:03:38/01-28-19) »
If you tamper with Stolen Gear, you also have to tamper with In Debt.
Maybe 2 karma max on Stolen Gear and 4 karma for In Debt.
At those restrictions, it wouldn't do a lot of unbalancing, at least, I don't think it would.

For possible eratta: I would also suggest 1 Notoriety for every 1 karma for Stolen Gear, if it becomes known the gear in question is stolen.

Candle in the Darkness, I could maybe see it allowed if the bonus to Loyalty is reduced to +1 for SRM.

Hobbes

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« Reply #5 on: (20:25:41/01-28-19) »
I haz a sadz about Special Gear not being Char Gen legal.   :'(

Edit: Special Modifications.... derp....
« Last Edit: (06:46:45/01-29-19) by Hobbes »

Fedifensor

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« Reply #6 on: (22:24:12/01-28-19) »

Some thoughts about Better Than Bad...

Blight, by default, is an injection vector toxin.  If administered via injection, the target (unless it fully resists a Power 12 toxin) loses their connection to the manasphere.  When Blight is combined with DMSO, it gains a contact vector, and the target makes a Drain Resistance test (instead of Toxin Resistance) versus Power 12, and damage taken is treated as Stun Drain.


Is the contact vector effect instead of the injection vector effect, or in addition to it?  What happens if something that doesn't have powers or abilities that cause Drain (certain Awakened creatures) is hit?

----------


So, Dead SIN gives 20 Karma, and the only thing you have to do is not use the free Fake SIN and Licenses that it also gives?  Or is there some other way this negative quality comes into play?  I'm guessing it is supposed to be like having a real SIN, except you'll eventually get caught and have to pay back the 20 Karma loan you got at character creation.  A good deal for the person who needs the points now, and is willing to pay later.  Maybe Missions could have the character pay back 10 of the 20 points, and the other 10 get turned into a criminal SIN...
----------


A pre-Initiative Data Spike from Instinctive Hack, especially if the decker had marks on the target in advance of hostilities, could break combats initiated by boxed text.  "The assassin shoots at your Mr. Johnson...except he can't, because the decker just bricked his cybereyes."

fseperent

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« Reply #7 on: (22:47:41/01-28-19) »
@Fedifensor
Dead SIN, erg, you take that and you better pray that you don't get connected to your fake SIN.
Otherwise, being arrested for faking your death will be the least of your worries.
Imagine being mistaken for a Shedim.
People will want to make sure you're dead dead.

Have to say, at 2 karma, Instinctive Hack is overpowered.

As for Blight mixed with DMSO, it would be contact only.

Stainless Steel Devil Rat

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« Reply #8 on: (22:52:50/01-28-19) »
...
Is the contact vector effect instead of the injection vector effect, or in addition to it?  What happens if something that doesn't have powers or abilities that cause Drain (certain Awakened creatures) is hit?

It does call out the effect on dual natured beasties, which may partially answer your question.

As for "what dice pool do you use" when the target is not a spellcaster by nature... probably treat it like adepts treat drain (BOD + WIL irrespective of tradition).  But it'd be interesting to hear an official answer, for sure.


Quote
So, Dead SIN gives 20 Karma, and the only thing you have to do is not use the free Fake SIN and Licenses that it also gives?  Or is there some other way this negative quality comes into play?  I'm guessing it is supposed to be like having a real SIN, except you'll eventually get caught and have to pay back the 20 Karma loan you got at character creation.  A good deal for the person who needs the points now, and is willing to pay later.  Maybe Missions could have the character pay back 10 of the 20 points, and the other 10 get turned into a criminal SIN...
----------

Probably going to just be left to SRM Blanket Rule #4: In Gamemaster We Trust.  Sure there's the potential for table variation... but honestly if you take that quality you really shouldn't be surprised by whatever the negative impact is to your character when biometrics linked to a supposedly dead person turns up at a crime scene.


Quote
A pre-Initiative Data Spike from Instinctive Hack, especially if the decker had marks on the target in advance of hostilities, could break combats initiated by boxed text.  "The assassin shoots at your Mr. Johnson...except he can't, because the decker just bricked his cybereyes."

The only problem I have with this quality is you have to pay karma to get it; it should just be an ability every hacker can do for free.  (but let's be real.. it doesn't cost much and from now on every hacker WILL have it)

It's not likely to break a script; in order for the decker to brick the cybereyes or gun the hacker first had to spot the icon(s) in the first place. 9 times out of 10 the hacker only gets his matrix spotting test done before the first pass. The requirement to spot icons before you can target them is one of the single biggest things that keeps combat hacking from being viable- so this quality goes a long way towards making combat hacking viable.

Quote from: fseperent
As for Blight mixed with DMSO, it would be contact only.

The drain isn't the effect of the toxin when mixed with DMSO, it replaces the resistance test.  If you mix with DMSO yes it gains the contact vector.  Instead of a regular toxin resistance test you make a drain test.  And if you fail to resist the toxin, then you suffer the same effect as if it weren't mixed with DMSO (becoming a mundane).
« Last Edit: (23:01:36/01-28-19) by Stainless Steel Devil Rat »
RPG mechanics exist to give structure and consistency to the game world, true, but at the end of the day, you’re fighting dragons with algebra and random number generators.

Marcus

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« Reply #9 on: (22:58:31/01-28-19) »
I haz a sadz about Special Gear not being Char Gen legal.   :'(

There there. I feel your pain.
Maybe someday they will reconsider and let us have one of them. 
« Last Edit: (23:05:44/01-28-19) by Marcus »
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Stainless Steel Devil Rat

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« Reply #10 on: (23:02:26/01-28-19) »
I haz a sadz about Special Gear not being Char Gen legal.   :'(

There there. I feel your pain.

I'm a sad panda about my materialistic snooty shadowrunner not being able to get away with high lifestyle for the price of medium.  Since she's a former aidoru, I'll cross my fingers that Jayde Moon loses his sanity and allows the Status mechanic from No Future.
RPG mechanics exist to give structure and consistency to the game world, true, but at the end of the day, you’re fighting dragons with algebra and random number generators.

Marcus

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« Reply #11 on: (23:12:23/01-28-19) »
I don't know about you guys but I can tell you right now, my NT character is certainly gonna rock hard with an instrument of death lol. Or maybe flaming pitchfork. Who knew pitch forks were so burnie?
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Marcus

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« Reply #12 on: (23:20:41/01-28-19) »
I'm a sad panda about my materialistic snooty shadowrunner not being able to get away with high lifestyle for the price of medium.  Since she's a former aidoru, I'll cross my fingers that Jayde Moon loses his sanity and allows the Status mechanic from No Future.

If only this could happen...
We could start ever run, with a rocking concert!!!
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Fedifensor

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« Reply #13 on: (23:31:11/01-28-19) »
The drain isn't the effect of the toxin when mixed with DMSO, it replaces the resistance test.  If you mix with DMSO yes it gains the contact vector.  Instead of a regular toxin resistance test you make a drain test.  And if you fail to resist the toxin, then you suffer the same effect as if it weren't mixed with DMSO (becoming a mundane).
That's one interpretation.  However, the injection effect is spelled out, then it talks about switching it to a contact effect with DMSO, then specific rules for hitting someone with that contact effect are given (Drain Resistance test, take damage as Stun Drain).  One can argue the contact effect replaces the injection effect, instead of applying both.  It would be beneficial for that to be clarified by the Missions FAQ and/or the Errata team to prevent table variation.


(The asterisk effect on the following page should also be addressed with errata, as there is no asterisk in the previous text.)

Stainless Steel Devil Rat

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« Reply #14 on: (23:41:37/01-28-19) »
That's one interpretation.

I don't think there is any other valid interpretation.

The paragraph covering the special case of mixing with DMSO never says it changes the effect of the toxin.  It only says this mixture changes the toxin resistance test.  Per the toxin resistance rules (pg 409 SR5) you make the toxin resistance test.  That test is in this case replaced with a drain mechanic. But then after making that toxin resistance test (or its replacement test) THEN you apply the effect of the toxin if the toxin was not resisted.

Ergo, DMSO + blight doesn't mean you suffer only potential drain.  Any drain suffered is from the resistance test, not the effect. If you suffer drain from not resisting the toxin, you THEN suffer the effect of the toxin.  The only possible effect you could suffer for failing to resist the toxin is the stated effect of being cut off from the manasphere.

OTOH, there's certainly room for higher guidance on some other aspects of the effect. What, for example, happens to a materialized spirit that loses all magical abilities?  Does it poof? Is it *unable* to poof?
« Last Edit: (02:52:48/01-29-19) by Stainless Steel Devil Rat »
RPG mechanics exist to give structure and consistency to the game world, true, but at the end of the day, you’re fighting dragons with algebra and random number generators.