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Background count and Qi Foci

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kainite311

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« on: (22:17:04/12-28-18) »
So as far as I understand the background count rules from Street Grim, you lower the level of foci by the count. So in the case of Qi foci, they would cease to function fr their intended purpose, unless you bought a higher rating then needed and the reduction still had enough power for the adept ability. I.E Power rating 4 focus for a 1 point power, walk into any background count at all and poof, that power no longer works (unless you had a power 6 focus and count of 2 or less...).
This seems a a little punishing to adepts, as a mage focus still has a chance to work partially. Am I understanding this right? Or would the power 4 focus work until a background of 4 is reached...
Kainite
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Stainless Steel Devil Rat

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« Reply #1 on: (22:35:38/12-28-18) »
A rating 4 Qi Focus is fine until a BGC of 4+ is encountered.

Bear in mind that while adept powers aren't turned off by a BGC, the BGC still imposes a penalty on tests that are affected by the magic... so the rating 4 Qi Focus is working in a BGC of 3, you still suffer -3 dice when using adept powers.

Marcus

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« Reply #2 on: (22:42:19/12-28-18) »
You have to be very careful here. There are some folks who have some extremely harsh interpretations of background counts and their relationship to foci particularly weapon foci. So just make sure you know how your GM reads those rules if they are likely to come up at a given table.
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kainite311

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« Reply #3 on: (22:51:54/12-28-18) »
A rating 4 Qi Focus is fine until a BGC of 4+ is encountered.

Bear in mind that while adept powers aren't turned off by a BGC, the BGC still imposes a penalty on tests that are affected by the magic... so the rating 4 Qi Focus is working in a BGC of 3, you still suffer -3 dice when using adept powers.

So the rating 4 focus does not have the number of power points it gives you for the power reduced by the BC? The power still functions until the total BC equals or exceeds the Focus? And adept centering can be used to offset penalties from BC to physical and combat skills correct? Is that reduction for every applicable action you take that pass? (I.E. you use centering, then attack, then later that same pass for the defense roll...)
Kainite
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Stainless Steel Devil Rat

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« Reply #4 on: (22:57:44/12-28-18) »
On re-reading the BGC rules (pg 32, SG) I do see Qi foci are in kind of a unique place in how the rules interact.  Marcus is right in that you'll want to discuss with your GM, I guess.  Personally, *I'd* say a "reduced" Qi focus still grants all the power points (and you naturally suffer the BGC penalty to using those abilities) but I can see how another GM might read it as taking away power points (and ghost only knows what the priority would be on which powers are lost first...)

I'm hesitant to go offering more opinions without re-reading the rules, but as for centering my gut (without referencing the rules) is that you don't get around a BGC... if it's magic you suffer the penalty. Hard stop.  (and yes, for each and every test, whether it's magic giving more dice [increased AGI, combat sense, etc] or some benefit to the outcome [Killing Hands, etc])

Edit: Adept Centering vs BGC:

Quote
Adept Centering
allows you to reduce negative dice pool modifiers to
Physical and Combat skills (such as modifiers from adverse
conditions) by performing some mundane action
at the same time.

Quote
A background count impose a negative dice pool penalty
equal to its rating for all tests linked in any way to magic (such
as spellcasting, summoning, and skill tests that use active adept
powers such as Killing Hands or Improved Sense). The exception
to this rule are background counts from domains, where a tradition,
person, skill group, or skill may be exempt from the penalty as they
are used to or aligned with the domain.

You have on one hand Adept Centering that says it cancels penalties "such as", and on the other you have BGC that imposes a penalty on ALL magic.  Just weighing those against each other, I'd lean towards BGC outweighing Adept Centering based on semantics alone.  But then there's the 2nd sentence, which gives explicitly gives exactly one exception to BGC penalties, and it's not Adept Centering.

So it looks pretty well beyond the realm of debate (to me, at any rate) that Adept Centering won't cancel BGC penalties.
« Last Edit: (23:05:25/12-28-18) by Stainless Steel Devil Rat »

Kiirnodel

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« Reply #5 on: (01:32:41/12-29-18) »
By a strict reading, since Background Count reduces the Force of the Focus, and Qi Foci must have a Force equal to 4x the PP cost, that means that Background can quickly make Qi Foci ineffective.


Marcus

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« Reply #6 on: (04:12:46/12-29-18) »
Force vs power level vs dice penalty can get very sticky. The wording is dangerous in the sense that while levels translates well in some powers (Improved Ability), it doesn't work at all with others. (Killing Hands) Don't be surprised, make sure  you know what's what. Keep in mind, Adepts are the kings of dice pools, there more ways to add dice with magic then any other option. So a couple die penalty isn't the end of the world, but just aware if you walk into a high background count and loss multiple source things can get ugly.

Edit: Also some adept powers crossover with martial arts, it's often preferable to have the martial arts verion of a power as it will never be shut down by BGC.
« Last Edit: (04:20:16/12-29-18) by Marcus »
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Michael Chandra

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« Reply #7 on: (04:35:34/12-29-18) »
By a strict reading, since Background Count reduces the Force of the Focus, and Qi Foci must have a Force equal to 4x the PP cost, that means that Background can quickly make Qi Foci ineffective.
This is the reading I'm used to yes, Qi Foci are nice but extremely sensitive to BGC. This because unlike other Foci, you need several Force combined to reach the effect you need.
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Kiirnodel

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« Reply #8 on: (14:22:32/12-29-18) »
My favorite idea for a Qi Focus designed to go up against Background is an Improved Sense Qi Focus. Each level is only .25 Power Points so it only needs 1 Force each. So, for example, a Force 4 Improved Sense Qi Focus would give 4 levels in the power.

That means when you enter into a Background, you lose a number of senses from the focus equal to the Background Count. You just make it so that you have some fun senses that aren't vital on there, and it isn't a big deal when they drop.

Moral of the story though, if your Adept is dependent on having a certain power, don't put it on a focus. You should plan for it to be for extra levels of a power you already have, or for a power that is either unnecessary in Background or won't be missed.