[Vystek]

I wasn't sure if this should go here or the gear section, so apologies if this is the wrong place.

If a gun's normal ammo is flechette (viz. Ares Viper Slivergun, or a shotgun that has to use shot) does a character buy it using the cost for flechette ammo or regular ammo? I thought it would be flechette, but that works out to be incredibly expensive for rounds that your gun is required to use.

[FastJack]

I wasn't sure if this should go here or the gear section, so apologies if this is the wrong place.

If a gun's normal ammo is flechette (viz. Ares Viper Slivergun, or a shotgun that has to use shot) does a character buy it using the cost for flechette ammo or regular ammo? I thought it would be flechette, but that works out to be incredibly expensive for rounds that your gun is required to use.

It's the Flechette ammo. It's one of the reasons you don't see so many flechette guns in use.

[Vystek]

Thanks, that helps

[Kontact]

The slivergun is still a beast of a weapon.

BF capable, built-in silencer, fully worth it.

[Mäx]

The slivergun is still a beast of a weapon.

BF capable, built-in silencer, fully worth it.

Especially with AP flechette ammo.
But IMO the best flechette ammo weapon is definedly Tiffany needler, a hold-out that does 8P damage is hard to beat in utility

[Vystek]

Especially with AP flechette ammo.
But IMO the best flechette ammo weapon is definedly Tiffany needler, a hold-out that does 8P damage is hard to beat in utility

AP flechettes? A holdout that does 8P? It's starting to seem like perhaps I need to get some of the expanded sourcebooks O.O

[FastJack]

Actually, the AP on the Tiffani Needler is +5, which means it's harder to pierce Ballistic Armor.

[Tagz]

Sr4A p 323  Ammunition

First, Flechette rounds are not resisted with Ballistic armor, they are resisted with Impact armor.  One has to keep this in mind when considering them since Impact armor is typically lower then ballistic, regardless of the +5. 

Second, the last part of Flechette description says that the damage code for some weapons is already calculated for flechette ammo, having the (f) notation following the damage code.  If a gun is designed for flechette only, it stands to reason it should be able to fire other kinds of flechette, so using so called "AP flechette" would bring that +5 down.

All in all, ordinary flechette are a good ammo to use in many situations.  2DV takes on average 6 dice to reliably soak, so the +5 armor given back is an advantage, but not a huge one.  It's the fact that you can switch over to Impact armor that likely has a lower starting score then Ballistic, that's what makes the ammo a good choice.  Many people miss this.

[FastJack]

I thought it was Impact, but it didn't make any mention of it in Arsenal and I was feeling a bit lazy about looking it up.

[Dakka]

The AP Flechette rounds in War are horrendously balanced against current ammo.  First, they use Impact which is lower than Ballistic in all but the wierdest situations.  Second they lose the +5 AP to become a - AP, which is basically FIVE AP off regular flechette ammo.  Even if we give this ammo the benefit of the doubt and claim it is build with the finest APDS technology that should still only reduce the AP by 4 to +1.

Recoil any automatic shotgun out to RC 5 and you are looking at 2 shots a round for 11 DV at -1 AP vs Impact armor.  That's just mean. 

[Chaemera]

Armor Piercing Flechette is +2P damage, no AP change and resisted by Impact armor, 18F and cost 18 nuyen per bullet. Oh, and they reduce the effective range of the weapon by 20%.

So the The average Arsenal shotgun becomes a 9P(f) weapon with -1 AP (against Impact Armor) and ranges of 8/20/32/48 meters. You know what, I'll stick to being afraid of the guy shooting SnS out of his sniper rifle... 6S(e) + net hits vs half-impact armor... and for 8 nuyen (less than half the price) at 150 meters without penalty.

But, if you're all that worried about it, drop a few nuyen into the SoftWeave PPP System, the cheap and easy way to bring your impact well above your ballistic armor. Impact typically only trails Ballistic by 2 points, it's not that big a shortfall.

And don't forget, nothing stops you from putting that AP Flechette into the new Battle Rifles, modded of course, to fire full-auto. You know, if you just want to get nasty. Or an HMG, for the -3 AP, I recommend the Stoner-Ares M107.

[Mäx]

Actually, the AP on the Tiffani Needler is +5, which means it's harder to pierce Ballistic Armor.

With AP fletchette ammo the needlers damage code becomes 8P AP - resisted with impact armor.
Thats pretty damm nice for a hold-out pistol.

[Kontact]

Even without the 18F ammo, the needler is a holdout, so, like Tagz pointed out, you're probably going to be using it to mess with lightly armored folks.  Armor Clothing has 0 impact protection.  Most bullet-proof business suits, are 3-4 impact.  Not enough that, even with the +5 AP, you won't be doing a grip of P.