NEWS

Failed Meetings.

  • 33 Replies
  • 2194 Views

Kiirnodel

  • *
  • Catalyst Demo Team
  • Ace Runner
  • *
  • Posts: 1459
« Reply #15 on: (06:50:21/09-09-18) »
Some of what you're talking about strikes me as a potential disconnect between what is in-character and what is out-of-character. For example, the players making cracks about the guy hiring them, them going about doing their planning, etc. All of that being viewed (by the players) as OOC actions that doesn't represent what is actually happening, or being filtered mentally to be "my character is doing planning and being all professional."

So then, when you respond to those actions, viewing all of it as IN-Character, their response is "well what's his problem?"

It might not be like that, though. I would suggest discussing your concerns with the group. Simply stating outright "hey, last time when you guys did {X,Y,Z} it was really insulting to Mr. J, it was really unprofessional. That's why he told you off there, and was mad."

There really might be a misunderstanding about what they thought happened and what you think happened, so starting off the conversation with clarifying that is probably best so that you're all on the same page. It might not work 100%, and they might be fully aware of what they did and not care. But at least then you know what you're dealing with...

Marcus

  • *
  • Prime Runner
  • *****
  • Posts: 2652
  • Success always demands a greater effort.
« Reply #16 on: (09:53:55/09-09-18) »
I've heard way worse,  they didn't kill anybody, and nothing they did prevents the job from being completeable, your players are just new and don't get how supposed to go. You should just put NPC professional in there to help guide their behavior. As to the rest Insulting Mr.J is poor form but happens, and Johnson's don't kill runner for talking smack, or saying incompetent things, or showing up improperly dressed, talk is cheap. All that matters is results.
*Play-by-Post color guide*
Thinking
com
speaking

adzling

  • *
  • Errata Team
  • Prime Runner
  • ****
  • Posts: 3134
    • Building Better Security
« Reply #17 on: (11:16:42/09-09-18) »
yeah you probably would have been better off starting them as street instead of AAA level until they got a handle on the game.

Nautilust

  • *
  • Newb
  • *
  • Posts: 47
« Reply #18 on: (14:51:37/09-09-18) »
I informed them going in exactly what we were going to be doing before we started, so that if they didn't feel comfortable playing at that level they could drop. Everybody seemed fine with it so that's where we started. But like I said, people don't listen. Human error, it happens everyday.

So we just have to talk and make sure that everyone is 100% on the same page.

And insulting Mr. Johnson is a really really bad idea. Mr. Johnson is looking for a reason to kill you, because if you get the job done and then they kill you. They have their money and the job done. I may play a lot more into the dystopianism of the setting than others. But people are blood thirsty, and if you make too many mistakes you'll end up with a knife in your back, 23 times.

Sphinx

  • *
  • Errata Team
  • Omae
  • ****
  • Posts: 675
« Reply #19 on: (16:38:49/09-09-18) »
Let their fixer explain the facts to them before setting up the next meeting.

"Look, I hear things didn't go well last time. I should explain a few things. When I vouch for you to Mr. Johnson, my rep is on the line. When you embarrass yourselves, you also embarrass me. I don't like being embarrassed; it's bad for my business. If it happens again, it'll be the last time I work with you. So ka? Now, some ground rules: 

1. Mr. Johnson has money. You want the money. To get the money, you have to convince Mr. Johnson that you can do the job — quick, clean, quiet, professional.

2. Mr. Johnson has information. He knows things about the job. You need to know those things. Listen to what he tells you. Think about what he doesn't tell you. Ask smart questions.

3. Mr. Johnson has secrets. He won't tell you everything; that's normal. You can push a little, but not too far. You can always do some digging later, as long as he never finds out about it. Remember the money. You want the money. You won't get it if Mr. Johnson is not happy.

4. Mr. Johnson has dignity. Sure, you could take him apart if you wanted to; that's beside the point. Be polite. Be professional. Don't screw around. Don't insult him out loud (you've got encrypted comms; use those). Remember the money. You want the money. You won't get it if Mr. Johnson gets offended.

5. Mr. Johnson is important. He has other demands on his time; don't take more of it than necessary. Get the details, get his contact information, assure him that you'll be in touch when the job is done, and leave.

Marcus

  • *
  • Prime Runner
  • *****
  • Posts: 2652
  • Success always demands a greater effort.
« Reply #20 on: (16:51:09/09-09-18) »

And insulting Mr. Johnson is a really really bad idea. Mr. Johnson is looking for a reason to kill you, because if you get the job done and then they kill you. They have their money and the job done. I may play a lot more into the dystopianism of the setting than others. But people are blood thirsty, and if you make too many mistakes you'll end up with a knife in your back, 23 times.

I don't have any idea what you're draw that from. But in traditional SR, No. Mr.Johnson is professional negotiator he/she is looking for one thing and one thing only getting her/his job completed successful with no blow back or complications. Paying as little possible is good too but not as important as completion and avoiding complications. Mr.Johnson, doesn't care if the runners kill or lose some of their own, but psycho kill don't make good Johnson, why? b/c Faces are generally good their job and will figure out if your Johnson is psycho. 

Going that direction is going end with failed meeting almost every time, and it mostly likely it's going end with gun fight between the team and Johnson, in which case I don't like his chances. So I'd seriously recommend re-evaluating that concept.

« Last Edit: (16:52:57/09-09-18) by Marcus »
*Play-by-Post color guide*
Thinking
com
speaking

Nautilust

  • *
  • Newb
  • *
  • Posts: 47
« Reply #21 on: (17:17:07/09-09-18) »
It comes from the atmosphere of the game as I interpret it, with a little influence from the world around me. People don't matter, they're a dime a dozen. Especially SINless, or people that have Erased. So if Mr. Johnson can get the job done and get rid of all loose ends, that's what Mr. Johnson is going to do.

That has little to do with the meeting. Most Johnson's will smile at you and pretend they love you, then send a team to kill you if they feel the need/have the chance. Mr. Johnson has power, ego, everything that makes a terrible person dangerous and that's what I play up. The world they are playing in is dangerous, and awful. It sucks, they don't want to live in that future. It's not futuristic Disney World; it's the Killing Fields, just better disguised.

However, I don't kill PC's unless I have a good reason to. Whatever situation they get into I provide several ways to get out, a couple which are dark.

There's also a demand for good runners. So if you prove your more useful than a liability, your place is pretty much secured. There's 100's of factors in play.
« Last Edit: (17:25:52/09-09-18) by Nautilust »

Michael Chandra

  • *
  • Catalyst Demo Team
  • Prime Runner
  • *
  • Posts: 8005
  • Question-slicing ninja
« Reply #22 on: (17:25:49/09-09-18) »
Not all Johnsons will betray runners, the same reason runners want to not burn bridges with their Johnsons: Most people want to be able to manage more than 1 run. If a Johnson immediately tries to kill a team simply because they can, they'll never score a fixer again. So treason isn't the default. It will happen occasionally, but you're not going to get backstabbed the second you don't expect it.

Also, runners are less of a loose end than you might expect. Generally, a corp will go 'whelp, we got robbed 3 hours ago, they took project X, no doubt it's in the hands of a Johnson and another corp by now'. The runners are irrelevant, so why waste time and resources taking them out? And not all Johnsons have power and ego, since often they're someone in a bind or a middle man sent by someone more powerful as well. So no, it's not full Killing Fields out there in the Shadows. You got to watch your back, but you're not gonna get stabbed in it every week.
CorpSec when an alarm is triggered;: "This is so sad, Alexa play Shoot The Runner"

Nautilust

  • *
  • Newb
  • *
  • Posts: 47
« Reply #23 on: (17:33:38/09-09-18) »
Not every Johnson is going to try to kill you, but there's plenty of them out there that will. There's all kinds of personalities you can enact, limiting it just to the murderous Johnson's is limiting yourself.

But they're out there and I make that obvious. There's always someone looking to stab you in the back, not everyone out there. If I was going to do that I'd run a horror game.

On why a corp would take the effort to go after the team. It's because they can, people are chaotic, they don't always make the sensible conclusion. But that's the exception not the average.

I make a very dark, bloody atmosphere; but I don't make it like that 24/7. That'd be like hitting them over the head with a hammer repeatedly. I take breaks into lighter story lines, I add comic relief, etc.

Marcus

  • *
  • Prime Runner
  • *****
  • Posts: 2652
  • Success always demands a greater effort.
« Reply #24 on: (18:48:29/09-09-18) »
Dark and gritty is perfectly fine, but Corps of any size don't do things "b/c they can", that's the realm of the Greek Gods, and makes for a great D&D game. Corps do things because that action results in profit or mitigates loss. Yes a Johnson, will sacrifice a team. But the Shadows aren't a vacuum, and even a really dumb Johnson knows that, get a team killed or just send one out to die and your Johnson better be prepared for consequences of doing so, Johnson aren't combat monster quite the opposite in fact. Runner have friends, and friends take it personally when people break the unspoken contract. So by all means make it dark and gritty but if that's really the feel you're after you would be way better off in a street level game. I think it would also help you get a better feel for the how the various level of play interact.


« Last Edit: (18:50:35/09-09-18) by Marcus »
*Play-by-Post color guide*
Thinking
com
speaking

Nautilust

  • *
  • Newb
  • *
  • Posts: 47
« Reply #25 on: (19:16:30/09-09-18) »
People do, do things just because they can. You're taking the human element out of the corporation. People like that do pop up, constantly, because positions like that draw that kind of person like wasps to a flame. Most are picked out early, the few that remain are the really scary ones. Don't tell me how people work. I won't tell you what you know.

fseperent

  • *
  • Omae
  • ***
  • Posts: 369
« Reply #26 on: (20:50:19/09-09-18) »
Nautilust, I would advise you read the Bosses & Betrayers section of Run Faster.
Mr. Js won't do anything during the meet, it's just bad form.

When it's time to collect the merchandise, only the very best items or R & D plans warrant tying up some loose threads.
More than likely, though, it's a bad gamble to waste any shadow asset.
Other runners or teams WILL find out.
Azzie and organized crime Mr. Js, however, are more inclined to pull the trigger.

As for looking out for the bottom line, it's REALLY going to cut into your bottom line if you can't hire anyone.

If you want a dark SR campaign, go as dark as you want.
Just remember, Mr. Js have people they have to answer to.

Marcus

  • *
  • Prime Runner
  • *****
  • Posts: 2652
  • Success always demands a greater effort.
« Reply #27 on: (21:03:21/09-09-18) »
Don't tell me how people work. I won't tell you what you know.

I told you how corps in SR works, not how people work. But you don't have to take my word for it, go read the source see for yourself.  I don't appreciate people putting words in my mouth, thank you.
*Play-by-Post color guide*
Thinking
com
speaking

The Wyrm Ouroboros

  • *
  • Prime Runner
  • *****
  • Posts: 4470
  • I Have Taken All Shadowrun To Be My Province
    • VU93 Writeup for The Wyrm Ouroboros
« Reply #28 on: (03:31:37/09-12-18) »
Don't tell me how people work. I won't tell you what you know.

You ... might not want to approach advice with this attitude, particularly when you're asking for advice.  This isn't the first time you've gone off on what you apparently see as people insulting you, your intelligence, whatever.

You're a new GM; listen, learn, take advice.  Use that advice change your tactics for different Johnsons, whatever.  Don't lash out because you think our advice offends you.
Pananagutan & End/Line

Old As McBean, Twice As Mean
"Oh, gee - it's Go-Frag-Yourself-O'Clock."
New Wyrm!! Now with Twice the Bastard!!

Laés is ... I forget. -PiXeL01
Play the game. Don't try to win it.

Michael Chandra

  • *
  • Catalyst Demo Team
  • Prime Runner
  • *
  • Posts: 8005
  • Question-slicing ninja
« Reply #29 on: (07:15:05/09-12-18) »
I'm afraid that if you're unwilling to listen to feedback after stating Johnsons WILL betray a team, I don't think I have any advice left to offer you. I wish you all the best at your table, but I don't think I can make any contributions to your requests. Good luck.
CorpSec when an alarm is triggered;: "This is so sad, Alexa play Shoot The Runner"