[spp]

A magician who is actively Counterspelling can even defend
against spells she is unaware of—specifically, Detection spells and
Illusion spells—as the magician is actively “jamming” the mana around
him. This does not mean, however, that the magician is aware such
spells are being used. The gamemaster should make a secret Intuition
+ Magic (3) Test to determine if (and to what extent) the magician
noticed the defense.

The first 2 underlined items imply the test is for the counterspelling mage to notice the spells.
However 'Defense' implies the test is for the detecting (or Illusion) using mage.

So which one, or both, make the test to notice the other?

Thanx

Sincerely from spp

[raggedhalo]

My read is that the second test is to see if the counterspelling magician noticed that they defended against a spell, or whether it sneaks by them unawares.

[spp]

My read is that the second test is to see if the counterspelling magician noticed that they defended against a spell, or whether it sneaks by them unawares.

So, if I get you right, the second test is the secret test by the GM (for the counterspelling mage).

Thanx.  Sincerely from spp.

[FastJack]

Well, to Counterspell, the mage in question has to declare that they are doing so (SR4A, p. 185). It's a free action to turn the counterspelling "on/off", so all they have to do is to make the declaration. No matter how many people are protected by the mage doing the Counterspelling, they only make one roll of the dice--most likely as soon as they declare they are they are Counterspelling.

The way I'd rule it is that as soon as they turn it "on", they roll the dice to generate the hits, which are then applied to all resistance tests until the mage turns it "off". If they turn it back "on", they'd get a new dice roll--but I'd say that turning it "off" would take another Free Action (same as Change Linked Device Mode), so they'd only be able to turn it "on" or "off" once per Initiative Pass.

The second roll is totally in secret, made when the NPC casts the spell on the mage.

Of course, if you have a group that is good with separation of character/player knowledge, you don't really have to worry about "secret checks", since you can simply point out that the player knows something was cast at their defending mage, but the character has no idea on a failed Perception check.

[Bradd]

You need to roll counterspelling separately against each attack, as it protects individually against each spell cast. The only time the magician rolls counterspelling defense at all is when rolling against an area spell.

By the way, you can make more than one free action per turn, it just costs a simple action.

[FastJack]

Hmm... you're right, Bradd. Somehow I missed the line that the protected character rolls the Counterspelling dice along with the other dice in the resistance test. I took the part that the dice are rolled only once for all protected by Counterspelling as meaning that there was one dice roll when the mage turned it "on" and the net hits were added to all Resistance tests.

Honestly, you could use it like I described, but the RAW are more dynamic and give everyone being protected a better shot at resisting each spell.

Thanks, Bradd!

[Walks Through Walls]

I would say you could just modify it a bit. Have them roll when they "turn on" the counterspelling. This roll will be used for the first unnoticed spell. If they fail the perception roll and don't notice and the counterspelling doesn't completely negate the spell and therefore make something obvious you move on and the player is none the wiser.

Then after they are past wherever you have them make a new counterspelling roll for the next unaware use of counterspelling. If they act on the "player knowledge" of having to roll all they will then be doing is slowing themselves down and making themselves paranoid  .

I used to regularly call for unneeded rolls by my players in my weekly game just to get them nervous and on edge. It is amazing how effective the phrases "Nothing seems wrong." or "Nothing appears to be out of the ordinary." can be.

Or you could just call for a new counterspelling roll in each new room/scene so the player knows he is rolling because of the change in situation. This would be especially effective if set up as a house rule ahead of time so they are expecting the roll and therefore will think nothing of it.

For situations where they add the counterspelling dice you could just roll the additional dice and add it to their successes.

[Bradd]

That's a good method, Walks through Walls!

With more experienced characters, it's less of an issue. Last mission, my group ran into some invisible Red Samurai mages. They almost didn't notice the invisibility spell because all but one of them saw right through it!