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Equipment Review of Kill Code - Wheeeeee

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WillAsher

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« Reply #15 on: (12:43:49/10-18-18) »
The vehicle is a device, and I don't know of many (certainly not your typical Roadmaster or other heavy vehicle) that have separate devices on the outside.  The various systems in a vehicle are not separate devices.  If it does have a bunch of external devices, called shot 'main body' is only -4 dice.

Fuzzy Rounds DO stop most riggers from moving their drone.  Fuzzy Rounds create 20 noise on suppression.  That noise is created instantly, and you can't 'Run for you Life' from it.  You can't drop prone, as the noise fills an area.  You show me a Rigger who plays with 16 Noise Suppression every time they enter combat, they have a chance to tell the drone to run from it.  The reality is that even the prime runner riggers I know don't usually have the ability to have more than 13 or so, and that is achieved by lowering Sharing.  You CAN'T run from it, or even give you drone the command to run from it via the Matrix.  The drone may think of it, but that is a dogbrain check that may or not succeed.  Your drone only follows your orders if you can give them, otherwise it does what it thinks is best or you ordered it last.  Unless you were already telling it to move, it may not do so.  You certainly don't get to give it orders unless you can verbally do so, which means you need to be nearby.  For most riggers, this is going to leave the drone very vulnerable.  The rigger has a headache or bleeding ears, and the drone can't dodge worth a damn suddenly.

As far as the datajack, the fact that you sacrifice Essence/Resonance and it is installed in your head is why most people in our meta lean towards making it work for Technomancers.

Jack_Spade

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« Reply #16 on: (13:33:02/10-18-18) »
Taking another look at the rules:
"Rather than doing normal damage, these bullets do Matrix Damage. The standard ranged attack roll is made with damage increased by net hits and applied to a single device possessed, worn, carried, or implanted in the targeted individual. The device receiving the damage is selected at random by the gamemaster, or by the attacking player if they succeed in a Called Shot. Devices can only be targeted by a Called Shot if they are visible to the attacker. Damage Resistance roll is made
using the Device Rating + Firewall, along with any other damage resistance programs."

It seems you don't even have to have outside devices (like weapon mounts or changing numberplate or satellite links or weapons in gun ports or drones in drone racks, etc.) but everything carried on the target.

If you go to the trouble of taking -4 to hit, you might as well target the engine with a normal bullet - any amount of damage you do will shut down the vehicle. And considering that your matrix damage is directly proportional to the gun's normal damage, you'll probably want to use a bigger gun with correspondingly larger AP value (or just a taser)

Mind you, I'm not saying that the Zapper Rounds are bad (I gave them a +). They are just not the be-all-end-all that they might appear to be.


Also, take a look at the vehicle rules:
Steering a vehicle takes complex action - but not automatically a driving test

"CONTROL VEHICLE
This action is not really an action at all, simply the expenditure of an action to represent efforts taken for the entire Combat Turn to keep the vehicle under control. This action does not need to be taken as the driver’s first action in combat, but until this action is taken, the vehicle is considered uncontrolled at the end of the Combat Turn and may crash or be taken over by the vehicle’s onboard Piloting system." p.203 core

Noise only affects your dice pool

"To figure out how noise is affecting you, start with the noise level from real-world distance to your target and add the noise level from any other applicable situations, then subtract any noise reduction you are using. Any positive noise level you have left over is a negative dice pool modifier to your actions. Noise never applies to defense or resistance tests." p.230 core

Even more important it doesn't stop you from evading being shot at.

talk think matrix

To strive, to seek, to find and not to yield
Revenant Kynos Isaint Rex

WillAsher

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« Reply #17 on: (21:26:07/10-18-18) »
The point of the Zapper rounds is that they are facing drastically less armor (Willpower+Firewall) and a much smaller damage pool (10 Boxes for most vehicles).  That means that my pistol might be able to damage that Roadmaster, where even an APDS round is unlikely to make it through the armor on a called shot.  Honestly, as a GM saying that you hit something you can't legally target with the rounds seems like a bad call (but your game your rules).  Particularly because the line is talking about devices on a 'targeted individual'.

As for Noise, If your noise exceeds your Device Rating your device looses Wireless functionality.  If you are jumped in, you get dumped out.  'If
there is a Noise Rating from a situation that is greater than the item’s Device Rating, not including distance, the item temporarily loses its wireless functionality (see Noise, p. 230).' (Core pg421).  That is the whole point.  You now cannot connect to your drone.  That also means that the drone is now using its own skills and die pools.  Jamming is great for keeping people from using drones effectively and making phonecalls.  Dealing with a Swarm that is murdering you, jack up the Noise and the swarm becomes a lot of (usually) weak drones. 

Michael Chandra

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« Reply #18 on: (08:58:08/10-19-18) »
Perfect. =) If you want to scare your players on Noise, let them witness a swarm turning useless in the blink of an eye like that.
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Jack_Spade

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« Reply #19 on: (10:10:36/10-19-18) »
Again, yes in certain cases they are more useful than normal rounds, but a simple taser aimed at the engine will do just as much (electric damage being not subject to the vehicle armor rule)

I think you are mixing something up here:
"Riggers can be forcefully ejected from their jumped-in vehicles in three nasty ways. First, if the vehicle is destroyed or bricked, you’re dumped. Second, if you’re using a commlink or RCC and it gets destroyed or bricked, dump city. Third, if you’re plugged into something with a universal connector and your cable gets yanked from either end (ouch), you get dumped." p.268 core

Losing connectivity due to noise is not one of these conditions.
The rule you are citing is for wireless boni. It doesn't affect the core functionality like making a call (otherwise anyone with a shitty link trying to phone someone in any given city would never get any use out of it)

talk think matrix

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Stainless Steel Devil Rat

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« Reply #20 on: (10:24:56/10-19-18) »
Yeah but the issue is with the broken-ness of Jamming.

Jamming is supposed to stop wireless communication.  You Jam a commlink so that it can't make a call at all, not just lose wireless bonuses.  You Jam a security camera so that it's not feeding the Host images of your team infiltrating, not to make it lose wireless bonuses.

But, barring errata/clarification, the only mechanical effect of Jamming is a field of Noise.  So even though Noise doesn't necessarily stop matrix signals outright, sometimes it does.  You can fly a GMC Banshee through a rules-gap that wide...

adzling

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« Reply #21 on: (10:34:46/10-19-18) »
errata for jamming has been submitted for consideration.

Stainless Steel Devil Rat

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« Reply #22 on: (10:52:08/10-19-18) »
Until it posts, some Noise behaves differently than other Noise.  And until then it's an intellectually honest question to ask as to which bucket a given example of Noise falls into.

Jack_Spade

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« Reply #23 on: (10:58:20/10-19-18) »
I think they tried to address that with the "Squelch" action in KC p.39
That's so far the only reliable way to make a device stopp receiving or sending messages.
talk think matrix

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adzling

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« Reply #24 on: (11:20:19/10-19-18) »
This is clearly what Jammers SHOULD do.

We have errata being considered that clarifies how this works for Jammers.

I think they tried to address that with the "Squelch" action in KC p.39
That's so far the only reliable way to make a device stopp receiving or sending messages.

Finstersang

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« Reply #25 on: (12:03:29/10-19-18) »
I really hope the errata team pushes through here. Jamming is just incredibly counterintuitive RAW. Not that I actually play it out by the official rules when GMing; but the fact that this dumpsterfire still hasn´t been officially put out just baffles me  :o

I suspect whoever is responsible for finally greenlighting the Jamming fix is either
a. hesitant because self-jamming to escape Linklogging would become a thing again, like in 4E. 
b. simply AWOL ::)

I strongly suspect b., but if a. is true, please consider this:
  • Situations where PCs or GMs just need an easy way to shut down Matrix communication are more common than situations in which a character gets link-logged...
  • .. and it is much, much, much more common than a situation where someone gets link-logged in a Matrix fight and everyone at the table thinks: "Gasp, what a pickle! Maybe we will finally see one of these fabled Matrix battles where the decker actually gets flatlined! I´m sure glad that you can´t just jam yourself anymore to quickly get yourself out of this exciting and dangerous situation, like in 4th Edition!"
  • The Hacker still suffers from dumpshock if he "cheats" himself out of the Matrix this way.
  • You can simply add an additional interaction between jamming and link-logging in the Errata. Example: "The noise from jamming also has to exceed the Attack rating of any icon that has link-logged the device or persona in question to be strong enough to force it out of the Matrix." Makes sense, since link-logging described as forcing the connection to stay open. That way, a self-jam can easily backfire if you underestimate the Attack rating of the Black Ice that has you in its clutches.

That being said: The RAW interaction of fuzzy rounds and supressing fire (I wonder who wrote that paragraph: The freelancer who thought it´s a good idea to let Nozquito´s stack? :P) is insane either way. If you simply disallow supressing fire for this ammunition type or houserule it (f.i. restrict the max. noise to the number of Hits on the Supressiing fire test), the whole thing gets a lot more reasonable.

As a side note: I think Squelch might need some clarification on what Actions the effect encompasses. I suspect it´s only Send message and maybe Spoof Command? That alone would be pretty strong, considering that the effect lasts [Net Hit] minutes and that Riggers use Send Message to command drones. To make this even more broken against riggers, it´s somehow resisted by the Sleaze Attribute...  :o
« Last Edit: (12:29:55/10-19-18) by Finstersang »
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Michael Chandra

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« Reply #26 on: (13:58:32/10-19-18) »
Yeah but the issue is with the broken-ness of Jamming.

Jamming is supposed to stop wireless communication.  You Jam a commlink so that it can't make a call at all, not just lose wireless bonuses.  You Jam a security camera so that it's not feeding the Host images of your team infiltrating, not to make it lose wireless bonuses.

But, barring errata/clarification, the only mechanical effect of Jamming is a field of Noise.  So even though Noise doesn't necessarily stop matrix signals outright, sometimes it does.  You can fly a GMC Banshee through a rules-gap that wide...
The clarification actually overrides the literal saying of the book, so I'm sticking to actual jamming.
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Jack_Spade

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« Reply #27 on: (12:59:21/11-02-18) »
After thinking a bit about it, I've come up with a house rule:

I let jammers perform a Squelch Action at the beginning of every round they are active with R*2 [Rating] vs. Log+Sleaze - in addition to their usual noise.
talk think matrix

To strive, to seek, to find and not to yield
Revenant Kynos Isaint Rex