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Illegal Implants

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Stahlseele

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« Reply #45 on: <09-05-11/0701:26> »
Dude?
MAD= Magnetic Anomaly Detection . . Why would plastic(non ferrous, even non METALLIC) be detected by that? Why woult PLASTIC be obvious of all things?
EVERYTHING METAL has an impact on Magnetic Fields, be they ferrous metals or not, i think . .
And Aluminium/Titanium are Metals. Even without being ferrous metals, they still have more impact on the magnetic field than Plastic and Kevlar . .
"In the absence of orders, go find something and kill it." - Field Marshall Erwin Rommel
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Thermo

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« Reply #46 on: <09-05-11/0844:33> »
Dude?
MAD= Magnetic Anomaly Detection . . Why would plastic(non ferrous, even non METALLIC) be detected by that? Why woult PLASTIC be obvious of all things?
EVERYTHING METAL has an impact on Magnetic Fields, be they ferrous metals or not, i think . .
And Aluminium/Titanium are Metals. Even without being ferrous metals, they still have more impact on the magnetic field than Plastic and Kevlar . .

exactly.. an X-Ray would be soooooo old-fashioned and crude in the 2070 era.. think about the CURRENT "magnetic field detectors" like MRI's and CAT scanners. They can detect the difference in density that can indicate a lesion deep inside the human body. I'm pretty sure that they'd be able to detect plastic, titanium, etc. They're looking for specific densities that indicate certain materials.

redTroll

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« Reply #47 on: <09-05-11/0858:00> »
On the plastic, i said that "bonelacing cannot be detected by MAD. plastic is obvious...." i meant that it is obvious that plastic cannot be detected. On the Aluminium yep my bad, it can be but is hundreds of thousands of times less sensitive than ferrous metals. Shadowrun being the future the MAD's are up to the task. Thanks for putting me straight.

Tsuzua

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« Reply #48 on: <09-05-11/1038:36> »
It was more of a comment on the psychology of a person who wakes up and decides that it's a good idea to undergo massive full body surgery in order to have his bones fused with titanium.
You know, from a character perspective. 
It's a messed up thing that takes a messed up guy to pursue.

And old women with osteoporosis.

There's some real oddities with what's legal and not in SR.  I wish I could say it's a commentary by the authors on the absurdity of what's legal and illegal in modern life.  But with the possible exception of deepweed, I think a dartboard was involved instead.
« Last Edit: <09-05-11/1050:48> by Tsuzua »

KarmaInferno

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« Reply #49 on: <09-05-11/1139:54> »
A moving magnet will create eddy currents in pretty much any metal that should be able to be detected pretty easily.

Won't detect plastics, sure, but aluminum, copper, etc no problem.




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CanRay

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« Reply #50 on: <09-05-11/1247:42> »
It was more of a comment on the psychology of a person who wakes up and decides that it's a good idea to undergo massive full body surgery in order to have his bones fused with titanium.
You know, from a character perspective. 
It's a messed up thing that takes a messed up guy to pursue.
And old women with osteoporosis.

There's some real oddities with what's legal and not in SR.  I wish I could say it's a commentary by the authors on the absurdity of what's legal and illegal in modern life.  But with the possible exception of deepweed, I think a dartboard was involved instead.
Which, when you consider RL laws...

Case in point, my FLGS/Army Surplus Store also has a license to store weapons-grade nuclear material.  They got it as it's the same permit required to import Airsoft.

No, I'm not joking.
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Stahlseele

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« Reply #51 on: <09-05-11/1321:22> »
And you people still wonder why people point and laugh at Canada? O.o
"In the absence of orders, go find something and kill it." - Field Marshall Erwin Rommel
"In a free society, diversity is not disorder. Debate is not strife. And dissent is not revolution." - George W. Bush

Weldûn

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« Reply #52 on: <09-05-11/1327:48> »
Dude?
MAD= Magnetic Anomaly Detection . . Why would plastic(non ferrous, even non METALLIC) be detected by that? Why woult PLASTIC be obvious of all things?
EVERYTHING METAL has an impact on Magnetic Fields, be they ferrous metals or not, i think . .
And Aluminium/Titanium are Metals. Even without being ferrous metals, they still have more impact on the magnetic field than Plastic and Kevlar . .
Okay, I'm a Licensed Security Officer and Crowd Controller and I've used hand-held MAD wands in my day-to-day work. And Stahlseele isn't far off. I've picked up the tiny amount of aluminium in a condom wrapper. I've picked up a single, half-millimeter of steel in a persons stitches (3 stitches). I've picked up the staples in someone's stomach, the 5 cent piece someone swallowed on a dare. Now, the guy standing next to me has used the same thing on the same people and gotten nothing, because he didn't use it properly. (Hint: I use the wand to also pat you down. I didn't lay hands on your junk, but I still know how much you're packing.)

The point is, in the hands of a trained operator, the stuff two-bit operations that I've worked with can pick up ANYTHING with even the SMALLEST AMOUNT of METAL. Ferrous, non-ferrous. I don't care. Metals, even those that aren't attracted to magnetic fields, still distort them. Now, a MAD system won't pick up plastic. But it might pick up the ceramic or kevlar. "Uh, whu?" I hear some of you say? Yeah, I know, here's where you need to understand these materials. Kevlar... well, there's Kevlartm and there's Kevlar. Original Kevlar, the trademark, no. But almost nobody uses that any more. But modern "kevlar" is made of stuff like Gortex, or Spectra-weave. It also often includes metallic threads, which an MAD can pick up. Ceramics are both worse, but better, because it can depend on the aggregate within the clay. If it's an oxide, or composite, then it might contain alumina, at which point it would depend on the density of the ceramic in question, but for the most part, you're not likely to get a reading. It's not that the field isn't getting distorted, but it probably won't be enough metal to distort the field enough to be noticed.

But then we get to how a Cyberware scanner works (supposedly). It's just an MAD scanner with a sophisticated expert system monitoring the distortions, coupled with a camera, a millimetric radar and an imaging processor. Now to really blow your minds. You know how there's calcium in your bones? Calcium is a metal. The Cyberware scanner knows how much distortion to expect, not only on the MAD, but on the radar, and when it detects the anomalous distortion, it checks it against it's database in a manner similar to object recognition software. Which also goes to explain why higher grades of cyberware is the primary determiner of how difficult something is to detect. It doesn't matter how big the object is, what matters is how close to how you're "supposed" to look it is, and that's a function of grade. And even plastic will alter the density readings from the radar.

EDIT: Oh, two other things I've picked up with my wand. I've picked up the titanium pin in a guys shoulder, but that's not hard. PURE titanium is brittle as hell, but titanium ALLOYS, that's the strong stuff. The second thing was a bottle of Jack Daniels tucked into the armpit of a guy's jacket. He'd removed the metal cap and sealant ring, replacing it with a cork. Not only did I hear and feel the clink of my wand against the glass, but the MAD went off. Why? Because of the TINY amount of metal in the label's PAINT.
« Last Edit: <09-05-11/1336:54> by Weldûn »
Cleverly disguised as an adult.

Which I think is sort of like arguing that a partial erection should get all the benefits of an erection.

CanRay

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« Reply #53 on: <09-05-11/1518:24> »
Titanium shows up on scans.  I have a "cyborg" friend (He got hit by a speeding dump truck with a full load of sand in Texas) and he has to have a half-dozen papers and writs of mother-may-I and such just to enter the USA, as he sets off every security system even if bare ass naked.
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FastJack

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« Reply #54 on: <09-05-11/1627:07> »
Titanium shows up on scans.  I have a "cyborg" friend (He got hit by a speeding dump truck with a full load of sand in Texas) and he has to have a half-dozen papers and writs of mother-may-I and such just to enter the USA, as he sets off every security system even if bare ass naked.
Really? I've got a full titanium rod inserted into my right femur (nasty car accident, shatter the femur in two places, had to regrow 'around' the rod). I've yet to set anything off, even the new full-body x-ray scans.

CanRay

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« Reply #55 on: <09-05-11/1628:15> »
Weird.  Maybe they turn up the sensitivity due to his Canadian Passport?
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Deliverator

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« Reply #56 on: <09-05-11/1830:30> »
Nah its probably because its encased in bone. Its harder to detect something within something. That would be like determining that there is a copper rod inside the titanium rod. A scanner wouldn't be able to tell you that, but you would be able to find that out with a bit of deep imaging. And those stand up scanners are a joke, they don't see anything beyond the skin, and they see more things that AREN'T there than that ARE there. OMG ITS A BOMB on wait its a fat guy with armpit sweat...

CanRay

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« Reply #57 on: <09-05-11/1914:22> »
Yeah, flying in the USA:  "Do I want to be molested, or microwaved?"

I think I'll take the train or a bus, thank you.
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FastJack

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« Reply #58 on: <09-05-11/2128:26> »
Before 9/11, I flew a lot for roll-outs and such for my job. I also used to where this "chain" around my wrist that took me about 20 minutes to put on/take off. The one time I forgot to take it off before going to the airport, I was heading to the regular scanner and told the sec guy my problem. He told me to hold my wrist against my chest and wrap my other hand around the wrist. The scanner never went off.

Deliverator

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« Reply #59 on: <09-05-11/2131:59> »
Yeah the walk through scanners at airports are a joke...