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6th Edition in 2019?

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Michael Chandra

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« Reply #45 on: (14:12:54/08-14-18) »
Wait, glacial rate of releases?  How many releases do you expect in a year?
let expectedRate = hatesSR5AndWantsAnExcuse ? actualRatex2 + 5 : actualRate;
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« Reply #46 on: (16:08:25/08-14-18) »
Wait, glacial rate of releases?  How many releases do you expect in a year?
let expectedRate = hatesSR5AndWantsAnExcuse ? actualRatex2 + 5 : actualRate;

Some people expect a book every month.

Usually the same people who then turn around and whine when the books "lack content" or have errors (admittedly this issue needs work), or don't cover something they want....




The books have been getting better; there are glaring issues in them, and from what Sphinx has complied over the last few books, mostly editing errors. (Grrr!)
But everything looks better when viewed through rose colored glasses.....

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Mirikon

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« Reply #47 on: (22:06:12/08-14-18) »
Well, considering that the TM stuff really ought to have been in the FIRST matrix book, like Unwired did in 4th...

Honestly, though, they do have a point that this edition has been... mismanaged. Starting with the annoying puzzles to get disjointed previews of Storm front in random order, and the 'Year of Shadowrun' that wasn't, continuing on with the Matrix being utterly fragged up, basic things like changing the Speed of vehicles/drones, and copy/pasting the Movement power, so you have wheeled drones that can practically go mach 1...

Now Catalyst has been getting better, especially since they have people on errata now, but is it any wonder why this edition has soured on a lot of people?
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wraith

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« Reply #48 on: (06:37:36/08-15-18) »
Wait, glacial rate of releases?  How many releases do you expect in a year?

We're 5 years past release of SR5 and don't have all the core books out (pending Kill Code ever actually releasing in a form people not at GenCon can buy), nor errata for most of the products for flaws pointed out at their release years ago.  One actual rulebook release in 2017, IIRC, with Forbidden Arcana (two if we're kind and give Dark Terrors the nod), and assuming they actually get to print this calendar year maybe 2 for 2018 in Street Lethal and Kill Code.

I had to dig for the titles because the Catalyst SR website is so out of date that it still shows Run Faster as an upcoming release... which has been out for three and a half years. The other sections are even more hilarious, still containing text referencing SR20th as the current core book.

But hey, the Sprawl Ops game won at Kickstarter, so I guess that's a thing that might someday get released, unlike the vast majority of the Year of Shadowrun stuff like Sprawl Ganger.

« Last Edit: (06:43:29/08-15-18) by wraith »

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« Reply #49 on: (10:36:45/08-15-18) »
Yah, it is better to find the releases by going to drivethrurpg, filtering by publisher and rules system, and sorting by added date.
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« Reply #50 on: (15:10:30/08-15-18) »
Yah, it is better to find the releases by going to drivethrurpg, filtering by publisher and rules system, and sorting by added date.
The website has never been a priority for Catalyst. Them not updating the page has always been a problem, and leads to the feeling among many that SR is the red-headed stepchild compared to Battletech or their other properties.
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Reaver

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« Reply #51 on: (21:17:03/08-15-18) »
Yah, it is better to find the releases by going to drivethrurpg, filtering by publisher and rules system, and sorting by added date.
The website has never been a priority for Catalyst. Them not updating the page has always been a problem, and leads to the feeling among many that SR is the red-headed stepchild compared to Battletech or their other properties.

That would probably be because it is.

If you look at the market for Batteletech, it MUCH bigger. So big it can support a table top game, a free to play online game (Mechwarrior online) as a full "Pay to play" title coming out (Mechwarrior 5), and a turn based based computer game (BattleTech)


That just shows where the money is at, and where it comes from.
Where am I going? And why am I in a hand basket ???

Remember: You can't fix Stupid. But you can beat on it with a 2x4 until it smartens up! Or dies.

wraith

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« Reply #52 on: (22:06:46/08-15-18) »
Yah, it is better to find the releases by going to drivethrurpg, filtering by publisher and rules system, and sorting by added date.
The website has never been a priority for Catalyst. Them not updating the page has always been a problem, and leads to the feeling among many that SR is the red-headed stepchild compared to Battletech or their other properties.

That would probably be because it is.

If you look at the market for Batteletech, it MUCH bigger. So big it can support a table top game, a free to play online game (Mechwarrior online) as a full "Pay to play" title coming out (Mechwarrior 5), and a turn based based computer game (BattleTech)


That just shows where the money is at, and where it comes from.

I think that's also a matter of who they choose to work with.  The Shadowrun Rrturns games were all commercially successful, but unlikely to convert players to SR tabletop because the tabletop 2070's are little like the games. Stuff like Shadowrun Online stopping development and Sprawl Ganger never going anywhere because the miniatures were vaporware haven't helped.

bull30548

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« Reply #53 on: (16:52:11/10-20-18) »
Alright i have read through this thread and I see a number of things that need to be addressed.  Mind you these are not answers to issues this is addressing some misconceptions that start in the wrong place.

First dice pools: Shadowrun has always been a 'dice heavy' game, by which I mean you need a lot of dice, and thus when the conversion from 3rd edition to 4th edition came about the best approach was discussed and decided on.  Please note this was 10 years ago where the internet was still just verging on being a great communication source between fans and industry.  Now if you like we could go back to the way 3rd did it.  You could not have a skill higher than your attribute associated with it.  At character creation it couldn't be higher than half.  However, please note dice pools were determined differently than in 4th/5th editions.  The third edition system addressed both the pools and 'limits'.  The problem in third edition was that Shadowrun has always been a lethal game and low dice pools usually reflected in a quick death just from a bad dice roll or two.  I still LOVE third edition over 5th but I don't have an issue with dice pools.

Second Technomancers: Please lay blame on the company that developed the idea from a half baked scheme, originally FASA, then WizKids, and finally Catalyst.  Yes, read that again because that is the series of Companies that 4th passed to and from as the license went through that roller coaster.  If you dislike the technomancer design then that is fine, I don't disagree that they have never been anything but a headache.  However, how to 'fix' them in my opinion is no easy solution.

Third Matrix in general: Third edition the joke was the Decker would show up an hour before game go through all his matrix stuff just to be at a point in line with the rest of the players.  Then when game actually started the decker was the guy you sent to pick up the food while everyone else played.  When he got back everbody else would eat while the rest of the matrix things were taken care of.  Basically Matrix and RT actions did not line up at all.  Fourth edition attempted to address this by making decks and commlinks so powerful the decker wasn't even necessary anymore.  Fifth edition brought the decker back by just making decks a little less powerful and with limits that it still needed a mind behind it to make it work. 

Fourth The Community and Input:  Go ask AJ or any of the regular Catalyst folks how many folks actually work for Catalyst Game Labs the WHOLE company.  You will probably find it has less than 50 employees (in fact I think it is closer to 20)  that work there full and part time.  The community is already involved in making and developing a lot of the products that come from Catalyst, they also frequent this site.  However, simply stating something is broken or doesn't work will probably result in nothing.  Hateful comments and just yelling at the forum boards will not create change.  If there is an issue, speak up about it, but make the discussions about how to fix the issue, post up possible solutions, playtest said solutions, come with actual results of changing a rule from blank to blank.  These are the ways that community input CAN make change and CAN influence the development of the products.

Finally 6th edition: There have been rumors 6th edition was coming since I picked up my copy of 5th edition CRB at a convention a month and half after release at GenCon happened.  As of now I am unaware of any 6th edition even being mentioned and that Catalyst is very excited and focused on the anniversaries of both Shadowrun and Battletech.  I hope for a 30th anniversary book and hope it is much like the 4th edition 20th where it almost was like 4.25 edition than just regular 4th edition. 

That's my two nuyen do with it what you like.
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Ragnarok

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« Reply #54 on: (15:35:50/10-23-18) »
Do I believe that a 6th Edition is coming: Yes. 

Will it arrive in 2019: I highly doubt it. 

Is a 6th Edition needed: Yes. 
A 6th Edition that completely rebuilds it to be as seamless as 3rd and 4th Editions were.  Back when SR had a chapter that detailed the past, as well as, recent events; because, after all, some customers don't get every single game product published, so its nice to know what came before (setting-wise).

Also, jump ahead in the timeline to the 2090's, or something more than a 3 year period in time.


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HP15BS

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« Reply #55 on: (17:03:03/10-23-18) »
Is a 6th Edition needed: Yes. 
... [It needs] a chapter that details the past, as well as, recent events; because, after all, some customers don't get every single game product published, so its nice to know what came before (setting-wise).

So much Yes.  I tend to skip over the lore in books of this size as I try to wrap my head around all the rules I need to know, but a chapter telling me the basic history that everyone in the setting is assumed to know would have been a great help.
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Ixal

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« Reply #56 on: (18:32:05/11-07-18) »
In my opinion 6E is certainly in the design stage.
There have been too many mentions of a new matrix system to be a red herring and I can't imagine that the matrix is changed mid-edition. So just look at what the next big metaplot is. If they focus on the NULL then the new matrix and with it the edition change is rather close (about 1 year). If they go for Ares first then it will likely still take a bit of time.

Also I have the gut feeling that the latest round of advanced books are some sort of test bed for the next edition. What they have in common in my opinion is that things have more unique modifiers to differentiate them from other options. Traditions have their own codes of conducts, limitations and advantages instead of just being variations of drain codes and spirit roles and decks have their own unique abilities than just shuffle attributes around.
Also, elementals are back while wild spirits are even more shamanistic themed spirits than the normal ones. They are optional for now, but maybe we will see bigger differences between hermetics and shamans when it comes to summoning in 6E?
Of course I can be wrong and the uniqueness is just because that every sensible stat permutation has already been done and they needed a reason for the new stuff to exist.

But assuming the new advanced books are a preview for 6E what do you think about that? Good? Bad? Too early to tell?

« Reply #57 on: (18:42:32/11-07-18) »
Too early to tell.

I'd say that even discussing 6E in concrete ways, as opposed to whether or not one will hypothetically (soon) exist, is certainly too early.  Has CGL confirmed a 6E is even in the works?

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« Reply #58 on: (18:54:08/11-07-18) »
In my opinion 6E is certainly in the design stage.
There have been too many mentions of a new matrix system to be a red herring and I can't imagine that the matrix is changed mid-edition. So just look at what the next big metaplot is. If they focus on the NULL then the new matrix and with it the edition change is rather close (about 1 year). If they go for Ares first then it will likely still take a bit of time.

Also I have the gut feeling that the latest round of advanced books are some sort of test bed for the next edition. What they have in common in my opinion is that things have more unique modifiers to differentiate them from other options. Traditions have their own codes of conducts, limitations and advantages instead of just being variations of drain codes and spirit roles and decks have their own unique abilities than just shuffle attributes around.
Also, elementals are back while wild spirits are even more shamanistic themed spirits than the normal ones. They are optional for now, but maybe we will see bigger differences between hermetics and shamans when it comes to summoning in 6E?
Of course I can be wrong and the uniqueness is just because that every sensible stat permutation has already been done and they needed a reason for the new stuff to exist.

But assuming the new advanced books are a preview for 6E what do you think about that? Good? Bad? Too early to tell?


Assuming this is all true. (there'ss some interesting points!)

It seems that the move is to add a level complexity back to the game that 4e (the first real big change in the game)  removed.

As you noted,  in FA we seem a return to a more 3e style of magic with complex traditions (and not just a fancy name stapled to cosmetics), and 2 "new" types of astral entities - which were basically the spirit types from 3e.

For the most part i don't have a problem with this, as I felt this change in 4e also really changed the "feel" of magic in Shadowrun.


Matrix:
The matrix side of Shadowrun has always been an issue. Its a great concept, but integrating it into a team game  that balances the time and need of all the players at the table has always been an issue. "Old Skool" players know the Pizza Meme for Shadowrun for the matrix from 1 to 3e ("And now it's the decker's turn. Time to go get the pizzas!")  So I appreciate the efforts tehy have taken to try to both speed up, and expand the role of deckers beyond being door keys.

Technos... well, we all know how I feel about them... nothing to see here. Move along :D
(Yes, they need to be fixed... you just don't want to hear how *I* would "fix" them..so lets just leave that to others)

Riggers could use a little love.... as in making it a bit easier to figure out "what skills you need" and keeping them in the flow of the game, because the rigger hiding the car doesn't inspire loyalty :D

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Remember: You can't fix Stupid. But you can beat on it with a 2x4 until it smartens up! Or dies.

Reaver

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« Reply #59 on: (18:56:45/11-07-18) »
Too early to tell.

I'd say that even discussing 6E in concrete ways, as opposed to whether or not one will hypothetically (soon) exist, is certainly too early.  Has CGL confirmed a 6E is even in the works?

They seem to play things close to the chest...

We didn't really get much of an advance announcement about 5e, in development terms... just an announcement that in a few months 5e would be rolled out.
There was no community involvement that I am aware of.... (no giant posts about it or asking for play testers) Now there was play testing done, but I don't know how the people where picked.. It very well could have been the freelancers and Catalyst staffers who did all that with their own groups or together...
« Last Edit: (18:58:40/11-07-18) by Reaver »
Where am I going? And why am I in a hand basket ???

Remember: You can't fix Stupid. But you can beat on it with a 2x4 until it smartens up! Or dies.