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SRM Combined FAQ v1.1 Discussion

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Jayde Moon

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« on: (17:27:51/07-16-18) »
Carrying on with community feedback for the newest version of the SRM FAQ:

Please post your comments, ideas, kudos, gripes, offers of fealty, etc below!
That's just like... your opinion, man.

Stainless Steel Devil Rat

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« Reply #1 on: (17:53:12/07-16-18) »
Woo!

The addition of the 4th general rule was a very pleasant surprise.

"Sigh. Why did you build a character that hits 50 initiative..."

Also great to see game relevant ratings for Neo-Tokyo contacts!

tequila

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« Reply #2 on: (21:54:38/07-16-18) »
Can we get this in the FAQ until it's officially errata-ed?

https://forums.shadowruntabletop.com/index.php?topic=27576.msg501742#msg501742

:D
#thistasergoesto11

Quote from: Tarislar
ArmTech MGL-12: Nothing says love like a 3 round burst of HE Grenade to hit something for 32P
Nuff said.  :-X

Lewis Greywolf

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« Reply #3 on: (08:01:56/07-22-18) »
Slightly disappointed that exactly how Riggers use Gunnery wasn't addressed yet

Xenon

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« Reply #4 on: (10:12:21/07-22-18) »
Slightly disappointed that exactly how Riggers use Gunnery wasn't addressed yet

Here you go:

which attribute does a Rigger use to shoot if jumped in?  Agility in ALL cases UNLESS there is a Sensor Lock, in which case it becomes Logic.


btw, the above also match up with all the rules and examples in core, namely:

Manual = Agility (SR5 p. 183)
Drone = Agility (SR5 p. 238)
Vehicle = Logic (SR5 p. 183)
Sensor = Logic (SR5 p. 184)
« Last Edit: (10:18:37/07-22-18) by Xenon »

Michael Chandra

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« Reply #5 on: (15:16:43/07-22-18) »
It's still rubbish, since it ignores the REASON Agility is used, but it is a ruling and also a ruling you immediately tried to get in the full errata. So not sure why you'd think there's no ruling.
CorpSec when an alarm is triggered;: "This is so sad, Alexa play Shoot The Runner"

Lewis Greywolf

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« Reply #6 on: (21:37:47/07-22-18) »
Here you go:
which attribute does a Rigger use to shoot if jumped in?  Agility in ALL cases UNLESS there is a Sensor Lock, in which case it becomes Logic.

I'm very aware of that statement but "that" didn't make it into the Combined FAQ 1.1

Jayde Moon

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« Reply #7 on: (22:08:26/07-22-18) »
That's because it felt like the errata team were close to issuing their own clarification.
That's just like... your opinion, man.

Quatar

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« Reply #8 on: (04:18:41/07-29-18) »
This is a question that came up discussing with another SRM GM, and we couldn't agree on an answer.

Can you burn your last point of Edge, from 1 down to 0? And if so what are the consequences? Do you have to immediately rebuy it (and go into karma debt if necessary), is it just not possible, or is having 0 Edge perfectly fine?

Sphinx

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« Reply #9 on: (11:26:43/07-29-18) »
Good question. I'd say yes, you can burn a point of Edge even if you only have one, but your next 5 karma are automatically committed to buying it back.

Kiirnodel

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« Reply #10 on: (13:00:25/07-29-18) »
Well there is actually precedence for the idea that you can't burn edge down to 0 in Splintered State.
SPOILER: Seth Dietrich has invoked Hand of God several times prior to his introduction, reducing his Edge from 6 to 1, and then he is killed in front of the PCs. That implies that while he has burned Edges already, this last time he can't. /END SPOILER

For the purposes of Missions, I would say allowing PCs to immediately spend 10 karma to raise Edge from 1 to 2 so that they can burn it would be acceptable. To me, 5 karma seems like a very inexpensive cost for the "I don't die" button.

Jayde Moon

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« Reply #11 on: (00:41:27/07-30-18) »
There is no rule that indicates you can't have zero edge. There are arguments for and against, but most feel fairly interpretive, so barring a rule, we don't take issue with it at Missions.

That's just like... your opinion, man.

Xenon

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« Reply #12 on: (04:29:53/07-30-18) »
I'm very aware of that statement but "that" didn't make it into the Combined FAQ 1.1
Fair enough :)

But (at least to me) it make perfect sense to use the same attribute, skill and limit no matter if you are using manual operation, remote operation or jumped in.

Or, as the book puts it; The dice pool of any test you make using this action uses the rating of the appropriate skill and attribute you would use if you were performing the action normally.


Piloting is using Reaction. Piloting is linked to Reaction.
Gunnery is using Agility. Gunnery is linked to Agility.
Perception is using Intuition. Perception is linked to Intuition.


To the above there are basically only two exceptions;

1. Vehicle (not drone) remote operated weapon systems use Logic (p. 183)
2. Sensor attacks use Logic and [Sensor] (p. 184).


Will be interesting to see what the Errata team comes up with.

Kiirnodel

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« Reply #13 on: (12:01:55/07-30-18) »

1. Vehicle (not drone) remote operated weapon systems use Logic (p. 183)

Where does that distinction come from, I don't remember Gunnery saying that remote operation is only applying to Vehicles but not drones. (Drones are a type of vehicle btw)

Xenon

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« Reply #14 on: (15:08:50/07-30-18) »
Where does that distinction come from, I don't remember Gunnery saying that remote operation is only applying to Vehicles ...
SR5 p. 183 Gunnery
Vehicle-mounted weapons are fired using ... Gunnery + Logic [Accuracy] for remote operated systems.


(Compare this with the example on p. 238)

SR5 p. 238 Control Device
firing a drone-mounted weapon at a target requires a Gunnery + Agility test.



(Drones are a type of vehicle btw)
Agreed, but SR5 seem to make a clear distinction between Drones and Vehicles. It is even more apparent in Rigger 5.0, but even the Gunnery chapter in question on p. 183 is divided between "Gunnery" and "Drone Gunnery".


This is the general rule structure in SR5;
    1. They make a blanket statement
    2. They list all exceptions to the blanket statement


    1. Gunnery use Agility
    2a. Vehicle-mounted weapons are fired using Gunnery + Logic [Accuracy] for remote operated systems.
    2b. During Sensor Attacks the attacker rolls Gunnery + Logic [Sensor].


If Drone Gunnery is not supposed to use Agility then the "Drone Gunnery" chapter need to mention this.

Yes, it would have made things more clear if the book would have reinforced the fact that Drone Gunnery doesn't change this (and hopefully this is what the Errata team will clarify), but since it is not an exception to the blanket statement it will also not contradict anything as written.

Having said that, they actually do give an example on p. 238: firing a drone-mounted weapon at a target requires a Gunnery + Agility test.


If you read the rules as if drone-mounted weapons is not an exception to the blanket statement and indeed use Agility (except for sensor attacks) then you will not find any contradicting rules or examples. This is the only reading that is valid with how the rules and examples are currently written.

If you read rules as vehicle-mounted weapons also include drone-mounted weapons and that drone-mounted weapons is included in the exception which change the attribute from Agility to Logic then you will find contradicting rules or examples. This reading is not valid with how the rules and examples are currently written (at least not without an errata).
« Last Edit: (15:11:05/07-30-18) by Xenon »