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Question on Astral Combat, Weapon Foci, and skills

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Well excepts Hobbes he gets my humor.
I guess 1 is infinitely greater then zero. So I'll call that progress.


--- Quote from: Overbyte on ---Why would you think this?
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Feel like I probably already answered that in this post:

--- Quote from: Overbyte on ---You merely get a -2 to actions on the physical plane.
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You can still sense a gray and shadowy mirror of the physical world while in astral, but trying to do any actions in the physical world while only using your astral perception (rather than your normal 5 physical senses) is highly distracting (which is why you get a negative dice pool modifier of 2 dice to all your actions in the physical world and you can't even use your physical perception at all).

It is far less distracting to for example be in AR with your matrix persona link-locked in a host and engaged in cybercombat by multiple IC and a security spider while you take actions in the physical world (you don't get a negative dice pool modifier at all, but in in some cases a GM might rule that you get a negative dice pool modifier of 2 dice to your physical perception).

--- Quote from: Overbyte on ---They still have to physically swing their sword...
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--- Quote from: Overbyte on still need reaction and intuition to dodge because you are still moving your meat body out of the way.
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To be honest I am not even sure you need to physically "swing your real life sword" or move your real life body "out of the way" while engaged in combat with an astral entity...

"You think that's air you're breathing?"

Anyway, what we do know is that fighting wholly astral beings is mostly a mind battle. You are basically fighting invisible "ghosts". The only way you can even sense them in the first place is by shifting your physical perception to your astral perception. The only way for you to hurt them (or being hurt by them) is by shifting from your physical perception to your astral perception. You need to dip into the astral world. Different rules apply here. Things like physics and momentum are no longer a factor. Being skilled with a weapon or in martial arts are worth nothing. Being physically agile or strong will not benefit you in astral combat. Even good Reaction will not help you. You use Willpower to land your attacks, Charisma to deal more damage and Logic to avoid getting hit. For your physical skills and attributes to matter you need to have a real target. A target with an actual physical form.


--- Quote from: Xenon on ---
--- Quote from: adzling on ---When your dual natures you can attack astral things with your meat stats and skills.
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Wait. What??

When you use astral perception you can no longer hear, see, feel, taste or smell the physical world. You can only sense the astral plane. Yes, the physical world cast a shadow on the astral that you can sense and you would still hit anything with a physical body using your physical attributes and physical skills but your strength and skill to swing a sword mean nothing when fighting a wholly astral form that doesn’t have a physical body. You need to use mental combat spells or astral combat using your mental attributes.

SR5 Astral Combat
Astrally perceiving and dual-natured characters use their physical attributes and skills to fight opponents with a physical body, and their Astral Combat + Willpower to fight wholly astral entities.

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Behold! Thread cybermancy! (I wouldn't normally do this, but this thread is still on the first page.)

I noticed that adzling made a similar post over on reddit:

Apparently, this is unpublished errata as of 11 months ago? I can't find any official update since this or the reddit post. I have a game coming up and an adept player is trying to juggle point expenditures. So my questions: Has this been updated officially? If so, where?

Thanks in advance!

Edit: I should note that I've spent the last couple hours searching, but I freely admit that my google-fu sucks.

I've never really understood what was so confusing about using Astral Combat + Willpower vs wholly astral entities. Or why so many people seem to be against that being the way.

Essentially: If one of the combatants lacks a physical body then the combat isn't physical. It becomes an attack of Wills (Astral Combat) so you use the rules for Astral Combat.

As far as I'm aware, the errata committee has ground to a halt due to various reasons. So no updates on that front.


--- Quote from: Kiirnodel on ---I've never really understood what was so confusing about using Astral Combat + Willpower vs wholly astral entities. Or why so many people seem to be against that being the way.

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For some it's the cost of the extra skill. For others, tradition. IIRC, in previous editions it was a throwaway skill unless you wanted to be decent in combat while projecting, since drain was always physical. I always figured that the change in SR5 was done deliberately to make astral combat a less niche skill. But if there's errata changing it, it goes back to a niche skill and saves my player some karma.


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