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Question on Astral Combat, Weapon Foci, and skills

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Marcus:
Yea and hence the proposal, but I don't think many get my sense of humor.   

Overbyte:

--- Quote from: Xenon on (09:37:46/07-29-18) ---When you use astral perception you can no longer hear, see, feel, taste or smell the physical world. You can only sense the astral plane.

--- End quote ---

Why would you think this? You merely get a -2 to actions on the physical plane.


--- Quote from: Xenon on (09:37:46/07-29-18) ---SR5 Astral Combat
Astrally perceiving and dual-natured charac- ters use their physical attributes and skills to fight op- ponents with a physical body, and their Astral Combat + Willpower to fight wholly astral entities.

--- End quote ---

Yah. That's what the book says, but I don't really like this for dual natured peeps. They still have to physically swing their sword since they aren't astrally projecting, which seems like it would require physical skills on their part.

Kiirnodel:

--- Quote from: Overbyte on (18:46:19/07-29-18) ---Yah. That's what the book says, but I don't really like this for dual natured peeps. They still have to physically swing their sword since they aren't astrally projecting, which seems like it would require physical skills on their part.

--- End quote ---

Against other creatures with a physical form, sure. That's what you would use, but against wholly Astral entities you go back to using Astral Combat. An Astral Form doesn't care how hard you can hit or how fast you swing. They move at the speed of thought, which is why Willpower and Charisma are the attributes that govern your ability to hit and deal damage to them.

Sphinx:

--- Quote from: Kiirnodel on (12:12:43/07-30-18) ---Against other creatures with a physical form, sure. That's what you would use, but against wholly Astral entities you go back to using Astral Combat. An Astral Form doesn't care how hard you can hit or how fast you swing. They move at the speed of thought, which is why Willpower and Charisma are the attributes that govern your ability to hit and deal damage to them.

--- End quote ---

Agreed. Melee combat in physical space is based on things like mass, momentum, inertia, gravity, anatomy, technique, and physical strength, which simply aren't relevant against a wholly astral opponent. Astral combat is based on entirely different principles (magical strength, force of will, understanding magical energies), so it's an entirely different skill, even for a dual-natured combatant.

Overbyte:

--- Quote from: Sphinx on (13:31:45/07-30-18) ---
--- Quote from: Kiirnodel on (12:12:43/07-30-18) ---Against other creatures with a physical form, sure. That's what you would use, but against wholly Astral entities you go back to using Astral Combat. An Astral Form doesn't care how hard you can hit or how fast you swing. They move at the speed of thought, which is why Willpower and Charisma are the attributes that govern your ability to hit and deal damage to them.

--- End quote ---

Agreed. Melee combat in physical space is based on things like mass, momentum, inertia, gravity, anatomy, technique, and physical strength, which simply aren't relevant against a wholly astral opponent. Astral combat is based on entirely different principles (magical strength, force of will, understanding magical energies), so it's an entirely different skill, even for a dual-natured combatant.

--- End quote ---

But your sword still has mass and momentum and all those other relevant meat space things which is why I don't like the rules. The astral target is running around (at the speed of thought) in astral space but you are not. Besides, almost all dual-natured creatures (except Horned Bear and Greater Thunderbird) don't even have Astral Combat skill according to the books (SR5, Howling Shadows). I understand the rationale, I just disagree. I might agree that the resultant damage is purely astral-based, using astral strength (charisma) because that is where the damage is taking place and how hard you swing your blade doesn't matter. However, that may create a big problem for many dual-natured creatures  who have crap charisma, like the aforementioned Horned Bear who DOES have Astral Combat but does 1 damage because of their Charisma, but I suppose that is working as intended.

The same logic would apply in reverse, if an astral being attacks you when you are dual-natured, then you still need reaction and intuition to dodge because you are still moving your meat body out of the way.

Once again, I realize it is not RAW/RAI, I just simply disagree with the logic here.

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