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DV vs AV

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Xelian

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« on: (08:28:57/06-23-18) »
After a few years pause I have decided to lead a campaign in SR5 again. It seems I had forgotten a lot of the rules and what made me stop playing the game last time. My players are absolutely new to the system and they just made heroes which they liked to play instead of dwelling deep into the character optimizations. In the first more serious fight with some law enforcement (security 3 armed with pistols and tasers) the combat halted to almost an impass. They were hitting each other with 2-3 successes but ended up unable to pierce each other soak most of the time. Which made me look through all weapons/armors in the game and to realize how easy it is to get AV compared to how easy it is to get weapons capable of beating that AV. An armored jacked cost 1000 nyens a helmet 100. With some gel packs you get a base soak of 16 + body with none of the part being restricted. An unoptimized character rarely hits with more than 2-3 successes. Which means that even if you shoot with a heavy sniper it will probably end up doing stun damage. Not to mention how much this prolong the combat with all the dice rolling for armor. Anyone else who run into similar problems? Or am I missing something? Any good armor house rules you are using? 

Xenon

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« Reply #1 on: (09:22:41/06-23-18) »
Let us assume that the defender wear an armor jacket with gel packs and an urban explorer jumpsuit helmet and that the attacker used a Ruger Super Warhawk heavy pistol with regular ammo. Let us assume that the attacker get 4 hits and that the defender gets 2 hits for a total of 2 net hits in favor of the attacker.

Due to the 2 net hits the modified Damage Value will become 9P + 1 = 10P.

Due to the armor penetration value of -2 the modified Armor Value will become 12 + 2 + 2 - 2 = 14

DV 10 <= AV 14 which mean the attack will deal stun damage.

Defender roll Body + 14 dice to soak damage. Let us assume 6 hits.

Total damage taken: 10 - 6 = 4S

Unless the defender have a physical limit of 6 or more he will be knocked down by the attack (Gel Packs reduce physical limit by 2 for the purpose of knockdown).


Same scenario but the attacker is using a Remington 950 hunting rifle with regular ammo. Let us assume that the attacker get 4 hits and that the defender gets 2 hits for a total of 2 net hits in favor of the attacker.

Due to the 2 net hits the modified Damage Value will become 12P + 1 = 13P.

Due to the armor penetration value of -4 the modified Armor Value will become 12 + 2 + 2 - 4 = 12

DV 13 > AV 12 which mean the attack will deal physical damage.

Defender roll Body + 12 dice to soak damage. Let us assume 5 hits.

Total damage taken: 13 - 5 = 8P

Unless the defender have a physical limit of 10(!) or more he will also be knocked down by the attack


Same scenario but a dedicated sniper using a Ranger Arms SM-5 with APDS ammo taking aim and shooting the target in the back. Let us assume 6 hits for the attacker and 0 hits for the defender (defender unaware).

Due to the 6 net hits the modified Damage Value will become 14P + 3 = 17P.

Due to the armor penetration value of -5 and -4 for the ammo the modified Armor Value will become 12 + 2 + 2 - 5 - 4 = 7

DV 17 > AV 7 which mean the attack will deal physical damage.

Defender roll Body + 7 dice to soak damage. Let us assume 4 hits.

Total damage taken: 17 - 4 = 13P

Since this is more then 10 boxes the defender will automatically be knocked down no matter what his physical limit is.

Xelian

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« Reply #2 on: (10:27:19/06-23-18) »
Wait.... the DV is not rolled? Damn I'm stupid :D Please someone put this topic into oblivion so I can hide in silently in my shame
« Last Edit: (10:29:56/06-23-18) by Xelian »

Michael Chandra

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« Reply #3 on: (17:32:59/06-23-18) »
It's not the first time someone made that mistake. =P https://forums.shadowruntabletop.com/index.php?topic=16489.0

Marcus

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« Reply #4 on: (03:28:31/06-24-18) »
As a long time exalted player I can totally understand the impulse.
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Streetsam_Crunch

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« Reply #5 on: (01:16:49/06-25-18) »
Welcome back to the shadows!

Yup, I think anyone would be rusty after a few years away. Heck, I just finished a 4th ed. campaign so I keep getting the rules for 5th mixed up in my head with 4th.

No shame here. You weren't the first, nor will be the last, and it gave you a reason to hop in here and talk with the rest of us, so that's something, right? :)

Crunch~