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[5e OOC] Black Trenchcoat

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blackshade10

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« Reply #30 on: (12:44:24/06-25-18) »
Clarification on Armor Augments: is the +4 cap mean combined?  Like +2 armor on two cyberlimbs and I'm capped?

adzling

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« Reply #31 on: (13:31:50/06-25-18) »
oh im sure you'd make a great B&E specialist.

my point was that walking down the street you'd stand out like a sore thumb.

couple that with attempting to "fly low" and it's just not a good recipe for anything except pink mohawk style stuff.

but i think you should discuss with Redwulfe, he's the GM.

raptor feet with digigrade legs in a black trench campaign?

methinks you'll attract attention like a white one rice.

I mean, at this point in his build, he's got a sneaking dice pool of nearly 20, and like 6 Flying Eye drones and can basically turn nearly invisible.  I'm definitely not the guy for disguises, but boy can I vanish!

Redwulfe

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« Reply #32 on: (13:50:14/06-25-18) »
Yes, if you have two cyber limbs with each having a +2 armor you are at cap so adding dermal plating will not get you anything else. but you can still gain more armor for you jacket by adding a ballistic mask or stacking since it is not an augment. I.e. cyber, bio, spell, quality or power.

Normal stacking rules apply to these modifications though so remember the maximum benefit you can receive from stacking is equal to your Strength.

In essence you can not get a soak pool greater than your Body(with augments) + base Armor + Strength(including augments; maximum stacked armor bonus) + 4(Augmented armor).

This was to help keep soak pools for getting into extremely high levels, though they still can get 30+ on some troll builds, and to keep combat in the deadly ranges me and my players enjoyed from earlier editions of the game. Combat is very deadly and decisive so always be the ambushers and try to avoid direct confrontations that you don't have advantage on.

That being said I am never against my players and like to create meaningful stories with them, I just feel that without the possibility of character death the story becomes less meaningful as it deludes your victories and minimizes your threat. This devolves the game towards the pink mohawk side of the spectrum and that is not what I was wanting for this game.

I hope that makes since. :)
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Redwulfe

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« Reply #33 on: (14:00:39/06-25-18) »
Out of curiosity How would you hide raptor feet in normal everyday situations. Basically to not draw unwanted attention if you where supposed to do a run into a B or higher neighborhood for example.
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adzling

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« Reply #34 on: (14:10:28/06-25-18) »
it not just the feet but also the legs, they are obviously differently jointed and look different compared to a metahuman (think dog leg vs human leg).

blackshade10

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« Reply #35 on: (16:17:03/06-25-18) »
Excellent questions!  He's basically got "Protoss Shaped" bends in his legs.

The answer, in short, is "contextual bullshit".  Basically, whatever cover story I happen to be using, or we happen to be using, for whatever we're doing in that area. 

Digigrade legs aren't Restricted, though Raptor Feet are, so it is more of a matter of having a plausible reason to have them.  If we need to hide the fact that I have them, then an ARO could be used to disguise them.  If we don't HAVE to hide them, then the reasoning could be many different things.  Private security, bodyguard, former athlete, are all valid reasons. 

I was considering a Fake SIN for an "armed courier".  Basically, he has them to move faster, and Raptor feet to protect himself better. 

I mean, yeah, he sticks out a bit more than others, but really, it IS the Sixth World.  People get cyberware and bioware as fashion statements.  As long as I have a decent excuse, I'll mostly fly under the radar, but it does depend on the context of what we're up to at a particular time.

Csjarrat

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« Reply #36 on: (16:51:57/06-25-18) »
Ok, finished my decker build. not gone minmax at all, just a plain-jane VR decker with kit and skills
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Redwulfe

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« Reply #37 on: (19:28:32/06-25-18) »
Excellent questions!  He's basically got "Protoss Shaped" bends in his legs.

The answer, in short, is "contextual bullshit".  Basically, whatever cover story I happen to be using, or we happen to be using, for whatever we're doing in that area. 

Digigrade legs aren't Restricted, though Raptor Feet are, so it is more of a matter of having a plausible reason to have them.  If we need to hide the fact that I have them, then an ARO could be used to disguise them.  If we don't HAVE to hide them, then the reasoning could be many different things.  Private security, bodyguard, former athlete, are all valid reasons. 

I was considering a Fake SIN for an "armed courier".  Basically, he has them to move faster, and Raptor feet to protect himself better. 

I mean, yeah, he sticks out a bit more than others, but really, it IS the Sixth World.  People get cyberware and bioware as fashion statements.  As long as I have a decent excuse, I'll mostly fly under the radar, but it does depend on the context of what we're up to at a particular time.

I could see many situations that you could actively talk your way out of a situation and social engineer your way around the obvious prosthetics that you would have. But after every run there will be an investigation into the crime that was committed and most of your crimes will cost the company millions in profit. When finding the culprit becomes too hard criminals get away with the crime. This is true today. What you have to worry about is being too easy to find. What your team has to worry about is wither they are too hard to find. What the fixer has to worry about is his team being too easy to find. I take extensive notes during a run of various things to bring a high level of black to the BT game. In play by post I will have even more time than I would have in a normal session.

Explaining Raptor feet as a mod that is possible to have in the 6th world is one thing; there are ripples that you will not be present for to explain away. If you damage someone with them there is a chance that the damage will be forensically identifiable, that someone in the area saw the guy with dinosaur feet, or even the question of how many people in a town of Seattle size has a piece of restrictive cyberlimb modifications like dinosaur feet. Are people going to flip on you? Are your feet going to make it easier to find you? Will a team want someone on their team that may get them traced? Would a Johnson hire a person for a subtle job when they are not visibly subtle?

Many a criminal has been caught because of a tattoo that he has and in a black trench coat game cops and corporations will look for you.

To me as a GM I love exploring these questions, but the problem will be will it work or will we be just making up more characters in a month after the first run? I am willing to approve the character as I fully believe someone out there has Raptor feet modifications and a player will be able to somehow keep that character alive. But It will make the game harder than what it already is. If the group is willing to accept the risk, ie would their runners go on a run with someone that may stand out too much, since everyones character will be at risk, then I will gladly explore that rabbit hole with you all.

As an old saying in my games go, "I didn't order pizza?"
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blackshade10

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« Reply #38 on: (21:27:47/06-25-18) »
I mean, those aren't invalid points, but my thought is kind of like... don't we have trolls and magic users in our group? 


I mean, if having somewhat distinctive cyberware is going to cause us that much increased difficulty, I think we definitely should know now, cause then, there's a lot we need to keep in mind.  Like, having anything distinctive whatsoever could end up rapidly biting us in the ass.  Weapons, powers, race, equipment, etc.  I'm wondering if I should redesign my entire character with the mindset that anything and everything can be used by vindictive former targets coming after us.  Just go completely Hobo with a Shotgun and buy nothing but cheap disposable gear.

Redwulfe

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« Reply #39 on: (21:44:36/06-25-18) »
Trolls and magic are probably more common than Raptor feet. but it is a good point to try and look as normal as possible. Gear that is easy to conceal or hide is probably more preferable to ones that stand out. A Troll would stand out in a AAA neighborhood but would be very hard to find as they are not uncommon. black trench coat is somewhat different than standard shadowrun. It is darker, grittier, more deadly. Now that is not to say that you can't walk in the barrens with open weaponry, in fact it may be preferred to rather than look like a mark, but even there you don't want to look to high tech as they may risk it to gain the payday. its a balance and please feel free to discuss things before you post in character to figure out what everyone thinks about a certain coarse of action. as we continue in the game it will become more and more intuitive on how we all play.
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blackshade10

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« Reply #40 on: (22:36:43/06-25-18) »
Alright, well... I mean, if I'm being totally honest, it is highly discouraging to find that my entire character basically is impossible to play with any level of surviability for either me or my teammates.  Losing all that work after such excitement kind of feels bad.

Gritty sounds fun, but drab and plain kind of kills a lot of the fantasticalness of the Shadowrun setting for me to be honest. 

Redwulfe

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« Reply #41 on: (23:00:02/06-25-18) »
Sorry that you feel that way. I was trying to be up front that this was going to be a hard core black trenchcoat game. You are still free to join if you wish. I have been running SR since 1990 and I have never had a group that did not enjoy the games that I have run. I hope that that will not change with this experiment.

I will warn everyone though if you get caught your characters will be hunted, this is hard core black trenchcoat and will be dangerous for you characters. If you are up to the challenge the enjoyment in this game is from the success you will have in solving the puzzle and not in combats and over the top cinematic play. Think x-files more than mission impossible, or oceans 11 more than the A-team. I know that this style is not for everyone but please feel free to join us if that is something that intrigues you. Their are hundreds of cinematic fantasy SR games as well as pink mohawk style game but we don't get that many black trench coat style games so I wanted to do that.

And if it isn't enjoyable then we will loosen the coat and move to a more cinematic approach to the game. :)
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blackshade10

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« Reply #42 on: (23:10:13/06-25-18) »
I just dunno what to play any more.  I figured most cyberware would be fine in public. 

Redwulfe

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« Reply #43 on: (23:27:36/06-25-18) »
Cyberware yes, most cyber ware is subtle. Many people have cyberware. Chromed to the teeth would stand out as would a person that is covered in tattooing would today. Raptor legs would stand out as even though it is cyber ware it would not be common. the only thing that I am seeing possibly problematic so far is the raptor feet which +1 physical and +1 speed multiplier shouldn't be character defining. Just my opinion. in a trench coat game what you do is usually more important than being the most efficient character you can be. To get the most out of a BT game you should be vulnerable and able to die.

Think of it this way, if you where to think of a spy would you think they where covered in tats or obviously chromed. 6 million dollar man would make a great runner, but terminator without his skin covers not so much.

I have a lot of tattooing and I get followed on occasion by security because of it. Though tattoos are not uncommon.

Go ahead and shoot the character over to me and let me take a look at it.
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adzling

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« Reply #44 on: (00:30:26/06-26-18) »
Donít get discouraged, feet donít make the man.