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Whats in a Firearm?

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Mäx

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« Reply #15 on: (17:42:34/01-29-11) »
you can have your recoil compensation, and -4 to perception tests too!
Yep, but you can only use one of them at a time, either you have recoil compensation or - to perception, not both in the same time.
"An it harm none, do what you will"

Teyl_Iliar

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« Reply #16 on: (17:43:43/01-29-11) »
Yep, but you can only use one of them at a time, either you have recoil compensation or - to perception, not both in the same time.
True, but you can still have them  ;D
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John Schmidt

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« Reply #17 on: (18:39:06/01-29-11) »
Grenades have been thrown back to the original thrower IRL.

True, thrown grenades...but I have never heard of a 40mic being 'tossed' back. There is a difference between thrown grenades and any of the grenades that are launched...like the M203.

Ok...I will shut up about grenades now.  ;D
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savaze

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« Reply #18 on: (21:52:55/01-29-11) »
@ Teyl_Iliar - I miss building my own guns as well.

@ John Schmidt - Is the SP8 the paintball version of the XM8?  I've got an AR15 covered in rails: one the top that runs the length of most of the rifle, three others on the handguard, and two at 45° from the top towards the rear of the receiver, for extra optics.  I've seen handguards with 6 rails, but it's more for flexibility than becoming obnoxious.

@ The_Gun_Nut & Teyl_Iliar - The actual fuse on the grenade the US uses (M67) is set for 3-5 seconds.  I saw a training grenade (M69) go off on a guy trying to "cook it off" because he thought it was 4 seconds... It's still unlikely that someone can realize that a grenade is thrown at them, then recover it, and finally return to sender.


One question that bears investigation is how accessories should affect concealability.
After all, if a Gas Vent can be taken as a barrel mount or a mod for the same cost and with the same effect, who would bother with the internal version?
First off i can agree with the statement about concealability. As for the external vs internal modifcations, if you have an integral gas vent or scilencer that's something that you can always have on that weapon, but you can't mount an external version of both at the same time. thusly, (Unless i've read something wrong or missed it completely...  :( that applies to everything I say btw...) you can have your recoil compensation, and -4 to perception tests too! I can see keeping somethings external because they are cheaper that way. Example an external smartgun system = 400 nuyen, Internal smartgun = the cost of the weapon. Depending on the weapon, that could be over a few thousand nuyen instead. it's like a budget option. in some cases, or in others just an extra way to get that last little piece on their weapon for that mission.  :-\
IRL, the only way that can work is with an internal mod making the rounds become subsonic or lose A LOT of velocity and then put on the equivalent of SR gas vent externally.  Last I remember those two attachments weren't compatible.

@ a lot of peeps - Projectile grenades, like those used in the M203 and Mk19 (not the same round) arm between 18 to 30 meters after firing and explode on contact.  There are the airburst variety that can also be armor piecing (meant to be fired through reinforced barriers and then explode).

John Schmidt

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« Reply #19 on: (23:53:01/01-29-11) »
The SP8 is the paintball version of the XM8...unfortunately Smart Parts (the manufacturer) went under last year. I toured their facility when I was taking a course on servicing their markers, very impressive the machining capabilities.

One of the reasons I think that people might be under the impression that modifying firearms will reduce the reliability/performance is because of after market car mods, which can do just that. Modern firearms are incredibly rugged...Mythbusters proved that!  ;D

It's not the one with your name on it; it's the one addressed "to whom it may concern" you've got to think about.

Teyl_Iliar

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« Reply #20 on: (00:53:52/01-30-11) »
@ The_Gun_Nut & Teyl_Iliar - The actual fuse on the grenade the US uses (M67) is set for 3-5 seconds.  I saw a training grenade (M69) go off on a guy trying to "cook it off" because he thought it was 4 seconds... It's still unlikely that someone can realize that a grenade is thrown at them, then recover it, and finally return to sender.
I realize this is what the the specs might say but I've had plenty of hands on experience with the M67 I stating that while that might be what the manual says, that is not always what happens. (disagree all you like, I'm stating my from my personal experience,  that is my only point.)


@ a lot of peeps - Projectile grenades, like those used in the M203 and Mk19 (not the same round) arm between 18 to 30 meters after firing and explode on contact.  There are the airburst variety that can also be armor piecing (meant to be fired through reinforced barriers and then explode).
I also realize this, the only reason this even came up is because of this,
the only thing I do know about War! that I really like is that if a grenade from a launcher hits it's target it can explode on contact rather than roll around and possibly get thrown back.
which i guess needs some back story... During a previous campaign our GM said since we couldn't find a rule in the core book saying they behaved like actual 203 rounds. So...... He had us roll those grenades as normal grenades even though they where launched from a mounted grenade launcher.
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savaze

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« Reply #21 on: (05:09:05/01-30-11) »
I realize this is what the the specs might say but I've had plenty of hands on experience with the M67 I stating that while that might be what the manual says, that is not always what happens. (disagree all you like, I'm stating my from my personal experience,  that is my only point.)
No worries I was a pilot in the Army (WO1 Retired), so my experience comes more so from heavier weapons and standard sidearms (and my experience with the police didn't involve grenades).  As a side note the M67 manual say the fuse is between 3-15 seconds, but practical experience says it's between 3-5 (that's the numbers from my brother - Infantry 10th mountain).

Morg

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« Reply #22 on: (07:09:58/02-02-11) »
To clarify at the beginning of the post I was speaking about overmod

so to restate what do you think about automaticly including a -1 to - 3 to socals similar to the pluses from mods like Custom Look and Pimped

topcat

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« Reply #23 on: (08:32:25/02-02-11) »
To clarify at the beginning of the post I was speaking about overmod

so to restate what do you think about automaticly including a -1 to - 3 to socals similar to the pluses from mods like Custom Look and Pimped

I applaud your attempt to rerail your own thread!

That said, I think it's fine to apply some sort of social mod (positive or negative) based on the audience and circumstance.  Someone who doesn't have a gun professional's frame of reference might be awed or intimidated.  Someone a bit more gun-savvy might fall over laughing or even just walk away, refusing to deal with the character.  A 10yr old action cartoon fan might view it differently than a ganger and the ganger might view it differently than a professional merc.

The key thing to remember is that a lot of mods in SR wouldn't add significant visual changes and many of those that do probably wouldn't be quite as large or heavy as their modern-day equivalents.  So I would try to limit the modifier based on visible factors.

Outside of that, never forget that overmods are up to GM approval and limits.  Sometimes, that means losing one item to add another.  Other times, that might mean a strength minimum to use the weapon without incurring penalties.  Or it might mean nothing at all.

Mäx

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« Reply #24 on: (08:39:06/02-02-11) »
To clarify at the beginning of the post I was speaking about overmod
Over modding doesn't really make a difference, you still aren't gonna end up with anythink looking like that stupidly over accessoried rifle in your image.
"An it harm none, do what you will"

KarmaInferno

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« Reply #25 on: (10:22:47/02-02-11) »
You can't get that pictured rifle in SR for the simple reason that there's no rules for adding extra rails onto guns.

Nearly all the Modifications are internal, and there's only three Accessory slots.




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Kontact

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« Reply #26 on: (19:29:04/02-02-11) »
If you think it's ridiculous, why are you letting your players overmod?
I certainly wouldn't without a massive amount of justification.

Hell, lots of GMs encourage players to strip and ditch their guns every time they have to fire them, lest they be used to connect them to a crime (or as material links, which is not really by the ritual magic rules anyway.)  Personally, I think there's too much other evidence to worry about such that, if the cops show up at your door, you're already on the fast track to hurtsville.

John Schmidt

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« Reply #27 on: (03:57:08/02-03-11) »
One evening I was sitting behind the GM screen and a player told me that I had to allow him to do X because it was in the rules. I replied that I could in fact allow him to do X but that my NPC's would demand to be allowed to do X and probably Y and Z as well. I then showed him the stack of fully stat-ed NPC's (on 8x5 index cards) that I had ready to go. He looked at the stack and then at me grinning behind the GM screen at him and then said that perhaps he could live without having X included in the game. The game proceeded without a further ado.

There is a point in any game where the GM has to say "No". Don't let anyone beat you over the head with the RAW...just say that you aren't going to let the RAW get in the way of having fun!  :D
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CanRay

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« Reply #28 on: (23:56:44/02-22-11) »
Style over substance is always important to me.  I know what firearms, and most mods, look like, and I style them to the character.  Usually, however, I'll have one "Tactical" weapon that only cares about performance over anything else.  "If you're not cheating, you're not trying."

Also, from what I've heard, the Launched Grenades arm themselves by an internal counter that counts the rotations the grenade makes as it flies.  I heard about a REMF in Vietnam that got his hands on a "Dud" 40mm Grenade that he threw into his desk and forgot about.  Every time he opened and closed that drawer, it would roll back and forth, until, one day, he slammed it in anger...

Launched grenades are impact detonation, so can't be thrown back.  Also, from what I've heard, it's actually hard to "Cook" a grenade as the timers aren't exactly precise.  "A Five Second Fuse will burn down in Three Seconds" is the phrase I remember hearing.
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John Schmidt

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« Reply #29 on: (15:50:21/03-07-11) »
CanRay, everyone has their own style of play I don't pretend that one is better than the other so as long as you are playing...more power to ya!  ;)

I have heard a theme and variation on the 40mic story, Afghanistan, terrorist, sitting around a campfire tossing the grenade back and forth. Some how I would believe that the arming sequence would involve the initial firing of the grenade but accidents do happen. Moral of the stories...don't play with stuff that goes boom.
It's not the one with your name on it; it's the one addressed "to whom it may concern" you've got to think about.