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Drones helping by using teamwork tests?

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kainite311

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« Reply #30 on: (12:25:40/06-09-18) »
Maybe I am misunderstanding what you are saying Streetsam... But medkits can add to dice pools when used (one could say they are 'assisting'):
Quote
Wireless: The Medkit provides a dice pool bonus equal to its rating to First Aid + Logic tests, or can operate itself with a dice pool of Medkit Rating x 2 and a limit equal to its Rating.

There seems to be a narrow focus on what each other's perception of what constitutes as the actual teamwork being provided. To this I submit the following (this instance is combat related as that seems to be the majority of the answers): I do not think you need to 'predict' what an ally you are helping is going to do in any great detail. Simpy knowing they are shooting at target A is enough (and rather simple to understand). So your goal can be many outcomes or combinations of things, such as: provide useful intel on target location (range, angle, body position, cover weakness, whatever, ect...), it could be dividing the targets attention into thinking it has to defend against you also, herding them into position for a better shot, shining the proverbial laser sight in their eyes to distract them... There are many variations on the same theme. The problem becomes, some of these actions step on the toes of other modifiers, but for sanity and simplicity, keep it all contained in the teamwork test. I would think most of these are really simple and basic to understand (hence, if you have the skill, you understand how to help without having to know exactly what the other person is doing).

To use a football analogy, you don't have to know the exact path that the ball runner is taking to help him, it's enough to know that his goal is to cross the score line. You have many ways to assist in physical blocking, screen cover, even your basic presence alters the defender's attempt to get to the ball carrier as they have to figure out how to contend with you without interfering with their plan.

Also, don't skillwires allow you to make a teamwork test? Can you assist someone who is using skillwires? If so, then how is a pilot program + autosoft somehow less capable then skillwire skillsofts + attribute. And to be honest, the rolls are pretty low (pilot 3 + autosoft 3 = net 2 hits on average).
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Streetsam_Crunch

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« Reply #31 on: (13:21:51/06-09-18) »
You're right! It was really late, and I was focused more on the non-wireless benefit (outside of it being able to operate itself). My apologies! Didn't mean to detract from the point that the closest 'drone assist' device was a Medkit.

Though that brings up a good point. Perhaps one could get the full benefit if the one using them were accessing them wirelessly like Medkits (getting access to similar instructions/overlays the drone would be).

As for Skillwires, it doesn't specifically say (though presumably the intention is that it being another character, it can if just by lack of specification otherwise). The only thing in that regard is that the using character cannot spend Edge on the roll because there's no luck, only programming, involved. In either case, I just thought it was an interesting question in that regard, and one that probably shouldn't be dwelled on in too much depth (as I said, another can of worms ;) )

Crunch~

Marcus

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« Reply #32 on: (23:20:52/06-14-18) »
Well here's the ruling on it.
https://forums.shadowruntabletop.com/index.php?topic=23881.msg500927;topicseen#msg500927
So officially dog brain drones can assist on Perception and Shooting tests, time to start investing a little shooting buddy folks.
 
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Streetsam_Crunch

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« Reply #33 on: (23:25:03/06-14-18) »
Quote from: Jayde Moon
If the drone is physically capable of assisting.  Perception test, too easy.  Spotter for a shooting test, I'll buy it.  Rotodrone helping you pick that maglock, probably not... (I say probably because some rigger will add an extended articulated arm that will enable to assist from ten feet above or something).

Yup, pretty much what I figured :)

Crunch~

« Reply #34 on: (23:34:21/06-14-18) »
And technical tasks too, so long as the drone is physically capable (e.g. has an articulated arm)

Jayde Moon

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« Reply #35 on: (23:48:31/06-14-18) »
Keep in mind that these are interim until the FAQ team looks it over.

I'm not convinced that you can't do teamwork tests for shooting and generally rule that ALL teamwork tests are allowable only if it makes sense but that all Skill + Attribute tests have some situational instance where a teamwork test could make sense.

If a guy is running down the hall blazing with a handgun, a person standing in a stairwell with no weapons is probably not going to be able to contribute to a teamwork test (though I will listen with amusement to a couple of justifications before finalizing my 'no' and moving on).

But mechanically, the rule for teamwork test is that there is a leader and there are assistants.  If you wanted to be really nit picky, all the assistants need to be part of your 'group' but who or what can be in a group isn't well-defined...

I don't buy Xenon's statement about it needing to be expressly allowed because I don't know where the official list of "Skills That Can benefit from Teamwork Tests" can be located.  I thought maybe each instance of 'Using X Skill' might have a specific Teamwork Test Yay/Nay entry, but they don't and many skills that obviously allow for teamwork tests don't say anything at all about it.

So, Skill + Attribute.

Annotating if there are restrictions might be a question for the Errata team.
That's just like... your opinion, man.

Michael Chandra

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« Reply #36 on: (02:05:31/06-15-18) »
We already have a way of teamwork in combat, two actually. The increasing penalty from dodging multiple attacks, and suppressive fire. Teamworking combat is not something I'd allow on account of cheesiness and lethality.
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Marcus

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« Reply #37 on: (02:19:47/06-15-18) »
We already have a way of teamwork in combat, two actually. The increasing penalty from dodging multiple attacks, and suppressive fire. Teamworking combat is not something I'd allow on account of cheesiness and lethality.
I hear you, which is one of the reason why i argued for needing another autosoft to make it happen. But this is the game we play and world we live in. So droning up your gun now has some solid potential for usefulness.
 

Ok Gun do I have shot lined up?
(Teamwork Test)
Yeah boss all set! (PEW PEW)
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Xenon

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« Reply #38 on: (04:35:26/06-15-18) »
I don't buy Xenon's statement about it needing to be expressly allowed
Ouch.... are you aware of what you are really suggesting...?

It is clear that you are allowed to use assist in ritual spellcasting (p. 296), group summoning (p. 300), assist in the healing process (p. 208), to help find a buyer when fencing gear (p. 418), as perception when several people looking for the same thing (p. 135), when tracking someone (p. 49), for animal handling to assist a critter's tracking test (p. 137) etc. Common for all of them are that they are all actions you normally perform out of combat and out of combat turns.

In addition to "regular" teamwork tests you also have specific uses of teamwork that have rules of their own. Leadership can be used to direct a subordinate to help them on a composure test or their next action or to inspire a subordinate to help them on a surprise test (p. 142). Diagnostics when someone use or repair an electronic equipment (p. 257). There is also a variant of teamwork test that may be used in melee combat (p. 188, but so far I have seen nothing similar for ranged combat).

With the exception of Leadership and the explicit Melee Teamwork test I think you need to be very careful before straight off applying standard teamwork tests (increasing limits and adding dice as a positive dice pool modifier) to actions that are normally resolved in action phases during combat (such as regular spell casting, ranged combat, throwing grenades, sprint tests, etc etc).

There are already several mechanics in place for helping your team in combat as is;

SR5 p. 189 Defender has defended against previous attacks
If a character has defended against at least one other attack since his last Action Phase, apply a –1 cumulative modifier for each additional defense roll.

SR5 p. 179 Suppressive Fire
Anyone in the suppressive fire zone or immediately adjacent to it takes a dice pool penalty to all actions equal to the shooter’s hits, unless they are completely unaware of it (a magician using astral projection, for example).

SR5 p. 177 Attacker in melee combat
This modifier applies to any characters trying to make a ranged attack while in melee combat.

SR5 p. 187 Friends in Melee
Whenever an attacker has at least one other person in the melee with them, they gain a +1 dice pool bonus. The bonus does not increase based on the number of friends.


Also, if you want to increase the limit on spellcasting you can use reagents and if you want to increase the limit on ranged combat you can use a smartgun..... Or edge.


I would would think twice before allowing breaking the limit with assistants if I were you.

Jayde Moon

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« Reply #39 on: (16:20:55/06-15-18) »
I dunno.  I named dropped you mostly to point out that if a skill has to expressly state that it allows a teamwork test, I'm not aware of where that information can be found... if I can't find where let's say performance allows teamwork test then you're telling me you can't do a teamwork test for performance... but a troupe would literally be using teamwork to pull off their overall performance.

I personally limit it via common sense.  10 people can't assist with lockpicking, I don't care that the rules don't expressly limit how many people can assist.

If the player can reasonably explain to me how 10 people are actually realistically contributing to his firearms test, then I'll allow it.

Sometimes we have to remember that the rules are here to help us smoothly move through a cooperative narrative game and not so we can get bogged down into what EXACTLY it says and what EXACTLY that means.
That's just like... your opinion, man.

Marcus

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« Reply #40 on: (04:43:54/06-26-18) »
This has officially been reversed.

"Drones and teamwork tests:  Dog Brain Drone cannot assist Meat People.  Dog Brain Drone can assist other Dog Brain Drone is they are on the same RCC.  Rigger possessed drone can assist Meat People."

Can't say I'm too surprised this one got the nerf bat. So cancel your drone gun order kids.
« Last Edit: (04:47:42/06-26-18) by Marcus »
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Hobbes

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« Reply #41 on: (08:16:03/06-26-18) »
Well, assisting in Combat had specific rules already.  Small Unit Tactics, Suppressive Fire, cumulative defense penalty, friends in melee, the actual "Melee Teamwork" rules on p. 188, and so forth.  Drones use Swarm rules.  People use Small Unit Tactics.  Combined Arms uses overlapping zones of Suppressive fire.

Little Buddies with Styr TMPs can still lay down a lot of debuff for not much Nuyen, I wouldn't cancel your order : )



 

« Reply #42 on: (09:56:04/06-26-18) »
This has officially been reversed.

"Drones and teamwork tests:  Dog Brain Drone cannot assist Meat People.  Dog Brain Drone can assist other Dog Brain Drone is they are on the same RCC.  Rigger possessed drone can assist Meat People."

Can't say I'm too surprised this one got the nerf bat. So cancel your drone gun order kids.

What source are you quoting?

Michael Chandra

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« Reply #43 on: (10:32:26/06-26-18) »
It's not official-official I guess, but it's the SRM-status, as posted in the SRM FAQ topic stuff. The same status that says you use Agility in VR unless Sensor-Locked. >_>

https://forums.shadowruntabletop.com/index.php?topic=23881.msg501686#msg501686
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Marcus

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« Reply #44 on: (11:53:43/06-26-18) »
It's not official-official I guess, but it's the SRM-status, as posted in the SRM FAQ topic stuff. The same status that says you use Agility in VR unless Sensor-Locked. >_>

https://forums.shadowruntabletop.com/index.php?topic=23881.msg501686#msg501686

Eh it's as official as anything gets, until the actual FAQ/Errata doc drops.
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