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Formulas for Chaos Mage

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Overbyte

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« on: (23:21:30/05-05-18) »
So you are a chaos mage.
Are there formulas just for Chaos mages? Or do you just use any old formula you want (can find)?
Suppose this question also applies to reagents.
Nothing is foolproof. Fools are so ingenious.

Marcus

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« Reply #1 on: (19:28:28/05-06-18) »
At this point I think this has really become more of a flavor question. If we take a look at learning spells in the Core. The spells are implied to still be linked to tradition. (" SpellSource and Magiknet that hold collections of formulae submitted from various traditions") and we know also the reagents are also somewhat tradition linked. As a GM, and player when the GM agreed I played Chaos magic as able to adapt anyone's stuff fairly simply. But I don't think that consistent with RAW. However all magic spells and reagents have the same cost, so in the end just trade it for the one you need I guess. I think mostly to how hard your GM wants to stick to the letter of the rules.
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Overbyte

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« Reply #2 on: (20:23:01/05-06-18) »
Well actually I'm GM'ing and I'm wondering if my player (Chaos Mage) walks into a Talismonger shop does he buy Chaos formulae?
Could he use a shaman formula if he knew a shaman that had one? (which he does)
If he wanted a teacher would they have to be a Chaos tradition mage?  (The ship has already sailed on this really, since I allowed him to learn the "basics" from a shaman tradition mage).
Nothing is foolproof. Fools are so ingenious.

Rosa

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« Reply #3 on: (21:52:30/05-06-18) »
If your formula or your teacher is of another tradition you take a -4 penalty to the learning test ( SR5 pg 299 ). So yes you can learn from another traditions formulas and/or teachers but at steep penalties. What you can't do without though is a magical lodge of your tradition. The test btw is spellcasting /ritual spellcasting /alchemy + Intuition  ( magical lodge ) to learn the spell. The teacher makes an instruction test to add extra dice to your test.

Overbyte

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« Reply #4 on: (01:13:31/05-07-18) »
If your formula or your teacher is of another tradition you take a -4 penalty to the learning test ( SR5 pg 299 ). So yes you can learn from another traditions formulas and/or teachers but at steep penalties. What you can't do without though is a magical lodge of your tradition. The test btw is spellcasting /ritual spellcasting /alchemy + Intuition  ( magical lodge ) to learn the spell. The teacher makes an instruction test to add extra dice to your test.

Yes. That is the general rule. However...

SG p.44
For some Chaos Magicians, performing magic is the path to fulfillment. For others, it’s about power. Some Chaos Magicians believe they are more powerful when they do not limit themselves to the trappings of any one tradition. As they listen to and learn from others, and as they pay attention to their own experiences, they see what works and what doesn’t. If it works, no matter what tradition it originates from, they use it. And if it doesn’t, they throw it away. Their broad-mindedness makes them quite comfortable with technology. If tech—from electronic spellbooks to nanite-fabricated lodges—can make it easier for them to do their work, they’ll embrace it.

So this seems to indicate there is no real Chaos tradition and therefore there really couldn't be any "Chaos tradition formula".
It wouldn't be fair to give them a -4 to learning all the time.
Nothing is foolproof. Fools are so ingenious.

Rosa

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« Reply #5 on: (11:07:01/05-07-18) »
Tbh that's just a role playing hint, they wrote almost the same in 4th editions magic book, Street Magic,  and again without any mechanics to accompany it. You can certainly houserule it,  but it does give the chaos tradition a big advantage over the other traditions if you do unless you also houserule a similar drawback.

Beta

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« Reply #6 on: (12:28:31/05-07-18) »
I'd probably house rule that there are no 'chaos tradition' formula, but cut the penalty for learning from other traditions to -2. 

The trickier question is reagents.  Not having any reagents of your tradition would increase costs (you need twice the quantity of reagents when using ones from a different tradition).  I'd probably house rule that Chaos Mages are so individual that there are no real tradition reagents, just personal reagents.  I'd let them gather their own reagents using Alchemy per the usual rules, and possibly let them use alchemy to sort and tweak other tradition reagents at a 3:2 ratio (reducing the cost penalty IF they also invested in alchemy). 

But that is all just house rules to catch the flavour of the fluff.
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Rosa

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« Reply #7 on: (17:29:50/05-07-18) »
Seems reasonable.

Jack_Spade

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« Reply #8 on: (17:40:32/05-07-18) »
Eh, Chaos Mages are just another flavor of magic. No need for special rules.
Or rather: No need to complicate anything further - formula and reagents have availability. If you beat it, you get it.
Personally, I wouldn't mind to let all traditions with the same drain attribute use each other's formula and reagents without penalty.
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SmilinIrish

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« Reply #9 on: (18:43:36/05-07-18) »
CRB p. 299:  "New spells, rituals, or alchemical preparations (p. 316) can be learned by studying spell formulae or finding  some mentor (either a spirit or another Awakened individual) to teach you."

My GM decided that since Chaos was not an well organized tradition, and that two chaos mages might not even recognize each other, that formula were difficult to find.  He did allow me to learn spells from spirits, paying the "instructor fees" to the spirit in reagents.  So I just pay price for low level instructor to match the formula cost, get a couple extra dice and learn my spell.  Works well enough and makes sense to him fluff wise.  He does not make it difficult to get reagents, though as a follower of rat, I can use any. 
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ShadowMaster

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« Reply #10 on: (23:42:04/05-12-18) »
The description for Chaos mages makes is sound like they might have a hard time teaching each other. There would be formula for the Choas Magic tradition, or else they couldn't make any formula at all. So I would cut the learning modifier in half for learning from other traditions and apply that modifier to learning from another Choas Mage.
As for reagents they would go through a talismongers shop and find what works for them and what doesn't based on what the shop has to offer. They might have to go to multiple shops to get a large supply, or have them make a specialty order with a talismonger that they know. ie it takes time to get larger orders done because their tradition is more picky and doesn't match any easily defined pattern. After a while when their regular talismonger gets to know them it would get easier to get reagents.