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Toggling Quickened Spells Temporarily "Off"? Is this a thing?

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« on: (23:32:16/04-21-18) »
Reference for Quickening: SR5 pg 326.

So unlike the rules for Foci, Quickening doesn't mention any capability for temporarily deactivating a Quickened Spell.  It reads to me like it's a light switch that can only be turned off, never back on again (not without re-casting a new spell and re-quickening that new spell, at any rate).

Am I right on this, or should Quickened spells ended voluntarily (or by being disrupted by a Mana Barrier) be able to come back "online" as if they had been suppressed by a sufficiently large Background Count?

Lormyr

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« Reply #1 on: (23:33:16/04-21-18) »
Once a spell is quickened it is there for life, unless dispelled or removed by a mana barrier.

« Reply #2 on: (23:47:53/04-21-18) »
Once a spell is quickened it is there for life, unless dispelled or removed by a mana barrier.

If you want to willingly get rid of it permanently though, you can just end it as you could any sustained spell, yes?  You wouldn't have to dispell your own quickened spell to end it (say, to satisfy a picky patrolman or bouncer who insists you can't carry the astral equivalent of a panther assault cannon in here...)
« Last Edit: (00:41:48/04-22-18) by Stainless Steel Devil Rat »

Marcus

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« Reply #3 on: (02:09:58/04-22-18) »
(say, to satisfy a picky patrolman or bouncer who insists you can't carry the astral equivalent of a panther assault cannon in here...)

This was done by no mage ever. You learn to conceal them, and that how business gets done.

Jack_Spade

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« Reply #4 on: (02:15:19/04-22-18) »
There is a way - technically.
You just need to find a source of BGC high enough to suppress your quickened spells. Afterwards they regain power by one Force per hour.

So if you have the background count generating spell, you can disarm yourself for a while. Although masking is probably still the better idea.
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« Reply #5 on: (02:42:03/04-22-18) »
Masking only lets you conceal foci? (SR5 pg 326)

Edit: I do see Extended Masking in SG page 149... but since that's got Masking as a prerequisite I guess you need Init Grade 3 before you can expect to not be called out by NPCs for having quickened spells...
« Last Edit: (02:53:33/04-22-18) by Stainless Steel Devil Rat »

Marcus

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« Reply #6 on: (03:42:59/04-22-18) »
A couple things, odds are your average full up mage in SR is gonna around with a small number of spells up with high regularity.
Your drain stat increases, your initiative increases, your enemy detection spells, maybe combat sense or an armor spell. Odds are most SR mages will have something from that list active, most of the time starting character will run those on low force sustaining amulets, but there are other fairly easy ways to do this (personally sustaining the spell, and having focused concentration, or spirits of man). So just things to consider when you start having more then one mage in the room.

One mage with single spell quickened is probably not going to be a huge threat, yeah the mage would do well to avoid the magic police, but most folks aren't going to have clue. Most of the spells I listed aren't going to have visible tells, and most places don't have any means to check if your walking around with magic up.  So odds are your never gonna run into a bouncer who's gonna ask you to leave the quickened spell outside metaphorically speaking of course.

Further if your about to throw down as spellslinger vs other Spellslingers. The mage with one quickened spell probably isn't your top concern assuming there are more options. The guy/girl you worry about is the one with a bunch of spells active be they quickened or just otherwise sustained. And the target you worry about more then that girl/guy, is the one who's aura doesn't match what your seeing. Obvious fake aura, means the target thinks he/she is stronger then you and doesn't care if you know it. That's the guy you treat like he's packing a panzer cannon.

« Last Edit: (03:45:40/04-22-18) by Marcus »

« Reply #7 on: (10:35:21/04-22-18) »
... Most of the spells I listed aren't going to have visible tells, and most places don't have any means to check if your walking around with magic up.  So odds are your never gonna run into a bouncer who's gonna ask you to leave the quickened spell outside metaphorically speaking of course. ...

I suppose we just have different visions of the SR universe then.  Granted the places that will pay for an awakened doorman are very few and far between indeed.  However, there are lots of places that are fancy and insist on rules much stricter than "No Shirt, No Shoes: NO SERVICE!"  Any place that will turn you away for wearing armor such as an Armored Jacket or insist on checking your weapons would be silly to not also insist on no magic being practiced on their premises.  Sure the doorman and maitre'd will probably be oblivious, but unless for some reason such an establishment fails to realize magic is a thing they'll incorporate magic into any Sixth World security to some degree.  Even if you don't get stopped at the door, odds are a mage carring active foci/sustained or quickened spells through such a place will eventually be spotted by a spirit or ghosting security mage and the physical security will be tipped off to go "remind" the mage about the "No magic" policy plainly posted on the AROs that the mage "must have overlooked" and ask that they comply or leave.

Marcus

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« Reply #8 on: (12:24:57/04-22-18) »

I suppose we just have different visions of the SR universe then.  Granted the places that will pay for an awakened doorman are very few and far between indeed.  However, there are lots of places that are fancy and insist on rules much stricter than "No Shirt, No Shoes: NO SERVICE!"  Any place that will turn you away for wearing armor such as an Armored Jacket or insist on checking your weapons would be silly to not also insist on no magic being practiced on their premises.  Sure the doorman and maitre'd will probably be oblivious, but unless for some reason such an establishment fails to realize magic is a thing they'll incorporate magic into any Sixth World security to some degree.  Even if you don't get stopped at the door, odds are a mage carring active foci/sustained or quickened spells through such a place will eventually be spotted by a spirit or ghosting security mage and the physical security will be tipped off to go "remind" the mage about the "No magic" policy plainly posted on the AROs that the mage "must have overlooked" and ask that they comply or leave.

Many places would carry that sort of warning. But as you said, nobody can tell, and magic security is expensive. So while they have the warning, there's no regular means of enforcement. Thus as long as nobody actually start throwing spells around all will be well. Same thing 
weapons concealed in cyberlimbs.

« Reply #9 on: (19:58:57/04-22-18) »
The mods have helpfully split the tangential thread about whether mundane security even can see sustained/quickened spells off into its own thread.

For the purposes of this thread, I'll repost my synthesis from the spinoff here:

Now when it comes to house rules: I think a reasonable one is that a mage can end his own quickened spells without having to dispell them off.  It does seem arguable that stricly by RAW he'd have to scrape them off with a Barrier or Dispel them away, but it seems reasonable to me that he can chose to simply end them.  I think it does seem the consensus is that you can't turn a quickened spell back "on" though after it's been removed.

ShadowcatX

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« Reply #10 on: (20:02:02/04-22-18) »
After reading through I have to agree with Marcus et Al. I just don't see anything in your quotes that implies in any way that magic that isn't obvious (ie. Levitate, ward, etc.) can be seen by anyone after the casting. But let's assume you are correct for a minute.

Do you think foci sparkle as well? If so how do you justify people selling fake foci? How do you justify people having foci, powerful foci in fact, and not knowing it?

Do you have any novels where mundanes notice magic just because? Any piece of fluff? Anything that doesn't go against everything that is essentially Shadowrun?

Marcus

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« Reply #11 on: (20:17:33/04-22-18) »
As for my lack of answers to your points:  Yeah I've ignored them, but that's because I don't understand what you're getting at rather than bad faith arguing.  What about Geasa and optional rules render moot the rules as described in the core rulebook on pages 280-281?  Honestly.  Give me a citation and let me see what you're looking at, because I've played since 1st edition and I have what I consider to be a better than decent understanding of how the magic rules have changed over the editions and yet I still have no idea what you're talking about with regards to Geasa (they are voluntary restrictions on the performance of your magic as a means of making magic easier- it's been that way since the 1st ed Grimoire and confirmed for 5th in SG on pg 142).

I don't waste my time in bad faith arguing SSRD, you may not agree with my logic and that fine.  Disagreement is just going to be how it is at times and that's Life, but if i'm actually bothering to reply to you I mean it. I have also played sense First, I remember when adepts has auto successes. You have said in the past that you primarily play missions, I mix it a fair amount but I do missions as well. Your tendency to push ahead and not address language or definitional issue is one that I find troubling and one that has lead me to dismiss your arguments on several occasions.

Gease, implemented primarily as a way to regain magic loss due to essence loss, a use which sadly has not made its way forward, well other then blood crystal thingies. Now gease were varied, but the most common one in my experience was somatic and vocal components (See D&D), which just made spell casting obvious, but didn't make your active spells obvious. The Shamanic mask in original form was similar in that, Shamans when they a different thing from hermetic assumed when he/she was casting a spell, you took on your shamanic animal mask once again making kinda it obvious, you were getting your voodoo on.  Now that concept is updated in the New optional rules for Mentors Mask (182 FA). Which makes your spell effect and adept power visible but in-exchange decreases the drain values by 1. Yes it is an optional rule. But to me it's existence implies the need for something else to make your spell visibly detectable.  I don't know where you got the idea that an active spell is a ward, but it's not. A ward is ward, there have been different ward variants in the past, I don't recall if that made into 5th or not.

« Last Edit: (20:23:42/04-22-18) by Marcus »

« Reply #12 on: (20:41:21/04-22-18) »
Replied here to keep this thread on topic.

Xenon

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« Reply #13 on: (03:50:29/04-23-18) »
While willingly ending a quickened spell actually isn't covered by RAW I don't see why a table would have any troubles with it.

However, you would probably not be allowed to switch your quickened spell on and off at will. If you end your quickened spell then you have to recast it (and spend karma to quicken it again if you want to make it permanent).

(As for noticing magic, let us continue that discussion in the other thread)

SunRunner

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« Reply #14 on: (11:00:38/04-23-18) »
Only the higher end end establishments are going to have magical security. Remember magical security is a SELLERS market. There are more clubs in Seattle then there are adepts and mages or magically active people of any kind. And mages / adepts of any significant power get PAID. They are not working as a bouncer in some shitty club in the barrens when they can be making a six figure salary working in some corporate gig. And to be clear even if they have a bad record and other employment problems if they have enough talent the corps will sweep that under the rug by issuing them a new SIN and or just getting the charges dropped / suppressed and or purged from the record etc.

Magic is rare, the demand for it way out strips the supply of it by several orders of magnitude. Now any moderately successful club can have some basic wards up as thats a pay a ward smith for upkeep on a ward that he stops by to renew once a month kinda thing or splurge and get a permanent ward by paying the 12 month contract up front kinda thing but actively having some one who can astrally perceive with any skill is the province of higher end establishments as that is a highly sought after and in demand skill.