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AI with Pilot Origins stat question

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kainite311

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« on: (01:17:47/04-15-18) »
So a question about AI using pilot origin to jump into a drone. Normally when a rigger jumps into a drone they use their meat body attributes for skill tests. But what should an AI use? Ignore using an RCC in case that matters.

Should they use their Home Device stats (for this instance pretend the home device has a direct connection to the jumped in drone, if that matters)? Or the Drone stats? Which can be convoluted in itself. For instance drones have Data Processing, and Firewall equal to either Device rating, or Pilot program. At first I thought this was a simple use the drone stats, but the more I think about riggers, wouldn't it make sense to use the Home Device stats? Otherwise it can be a penalty to the AI, since riggers get to use their personal stats(and included cyberware enhancements) and the firewall and data process stat of the drone. Which leads into the other problem, the blurb in Data Trails saying to use Depth in place of pilot rating. Again, this can be a penalty to the AI as everything else gets to use the firewall and data processing of the drones they jump into for initiative for example. Example depth 4 jumping into a drone with a pilot 6 for instance. So in this instance, the AI is now easier to hack, and slower then a rigger jumping into the same drone, regardless of anything else besides simply being an AI vs meatbag. Personally I think that particular rule of using Depth for pilot should be the optional (this also affects how many autosofts can be run also) and you use the highest value, pilot or depth at the time. Yes you are an AI, but why should you lose out on the processing power of the high end device your jumped into when everyone else gets to harness it? Further, what if you can use Home Device stats, do you use it overall, or highest of the 3 now (Pilot, Depth, Home Device)? My head hurts... Hopefully that word jumble made some semblance of sense... Sorry

Thank you in advance ;)
Kainite
Actually, in most Shadowrun games, they typically have a Lifestyle so they're either Murder Hobos (Street/Squatter Level) or Murder Renters (Low+ level)

firebug

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« Reply #1 on: (11:19:25/04-15-18) »
AI Riggers are a weird case--  Most of the AI rules in 5th Edition are very confusing, sometimes even being contradictory.  If you want to play an AI, you'll need a healthy amount of houserules just to be playable.

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Normally when a rigger jumps into a drone they use their meat body attributes for skill tests. But what should an AI use? Ignore using an RCC in case that matters.

An AI consults the Foundation Attributes table on page 110 of Data Trails if they'd need a Physical attribute.  While Jumped In to a drone, you probably could only be asked to use Reaction (other attributes would be the Drone's attributes), which is the character's Data Processing.

What the character's Data Processing is depends where they are.  The AI could be in the drone, supplanting its Pilot program, in which case its Data Processing would be based on the Drone's Pilot/Device Rating.  Or, the AI could be in a different persona-device like an RCC, Cyberdeck, or Commlink, and then be using it to jump into a drone similar to how a metahuman does it.  In this case, their Data Processing (and thus, Reaction) would be based off the persona-device's attribute.

They don't automatically use whatever device is their Home Device; it's entirely possible for the AI to have left their Home Device and moved into a drone to use it.

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Which leads into the other problem, the blurb in Data Trails saying to use Depth in place of pilot rating. Again, this can be a penalty to the AI as everything else gets to use the firewall and data processing of the drones they jump into for initiative for example. Example depth 4 jumping into a drone with a pilot 6 for instance. So in this instance, the AI is now easier to hack, and slower then a rigger jumping into the same drone, regardless of anything else besides simply being an AI vs meatbag.

You're correct, but it's far, far more likely that the drones you buy will have a Pilot or 2-3, and you are an AI with a Depth of 4+, with the Designer quality (+1 to Pilot of your home device) and Optimizing Pilot, potentially resulting in impossibly-high Pilot ratings as your AI makes the device stronger than is normally possible.
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kainite311

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« Reply #2 on: (12:04:14/04-15-18) »
AI Riggers are a weird case--  Most of the AI rules in 5th Edition are very confusing, sometimes even being contradictory.  If you want to play an AI, you'll need a healthy amount of houserules just to be playable.

Agreed, was making sure I wasn't missing anything due to the layout and organization of the books...

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An AI consults the Foundation Attributes table on page 110 of Data Trails if they'd need a Physical attribute.  While Jumped In to a drone, you probably could only be asked to use Reaction (other attributes would be the Drone's attributes), which is the character's Data Processing.

What the character's Data Processing is depends where they are.  The AI could be in the drone, supplanting its Pilot program, in which case its Data Processing would be based on the Drone's Pilot/Device Rating.  Or, the AI could be in a different persona-device like an RCC, Cyberdeck, or Commlink, and then be using it to jump into a drone similar to how a metahuman does it.  In this case, their Data Processing (and thus, Reaction) would be based off the persona-device's attribute.

They don't automatically use whatever device is their Home Device; it's entirely possible for the AI to have left their Home Device and moved into a drone to use it.


You're correct, but it's far, far more likely that the drones you buy will have a Pilot or 2-3, and you are an AI with a Depth of 4+, with the Designer quality (+1 to Pilot of your home device) and Optimizing Pilot, potentially resulting in impossibly-high Pilot ratings as your AI makes the device stronger than is normally possible.

I should have clarified that the home device was what they were jumping from for clarification purposes. Iin the end it still doesn't mater as your answer asdresses  what the basic question is (What stats to use when jumping into drone from another device...). As far as using the foundation stats, it's hard to determine to use them without answering that same basic question (Device or Drone). Plus the further confusion about replacing pilot with depth, and then you can really start muddying the water with adding a module to the drone and modifications ect... It seemed like such a simple question when I first was looking at rigger version of AI, that I was sure I was missing some line of text somewhere. That one basic question has a lot of ramifications depending on which way it goes (then it leads to use pilot,depth, or device jumped from to determine how many autosofts...). Then there is the jumped into drone slaved to a device (say comlink for firewall) from whatever device the AI is inhabiting (This assumes I understand the rigging/drone rules correctly in that a metahuman rigger can jump into a drone slave to another device in order to gain better firewall protection)... So yeah, one question sprouts a huge spiderweb of what if's that can drastically change the stats and abilities, and the final dice pools.

For my homebrew rules, our table has been useing the following the last several months...

-AI uses the stats of the device they jump from (unless they want to inhabit the Drone as home device for those bonuses and, reasons...)
-They can choose to use the pilot rating, or depth for purposes of autosofts (Reasoning for pilot being used, you still get access to that computing "horsepower" if pilot is higher)
-If running silent, then -2 to all jumped in matrix actions (This includes vehicle tests as they are now matrix tests per the rules), still trying to figure out what would actually be set to silent running (i.e. the drone, device jumped from, device drone might be slaved to.... In the end we decided it not to important as the net is still the -2 penalty, regardless of what is actually silenced..)


Kainite
Actually, in most Shadowrun games, they typically have a Lifestyle so they're either Murder Hobos (Street/Squatter Level) or Murder Renters (Low+ level)

kainite311

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« Reply #3 on: (23:58:36/04-15-18) »
Crap, new issue. If you allow stats to be used from device currently in, while jumping into drone.... Matrix condition(damage) boxes are derived from....?? the pineapple? Sloppy...
Kainite
Actually, in most Shadowrun games, they typically have a Lifestyle so they're either Murder Hobos (Street/Squatter Level) or Murder Renters (Low+ level)

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« Reply #4 on: (00:18:43/04-16-18) »
Who wrote the AI section?...
Yeah, TMs got thrown in the cell with Bubba the Love Troll and sandpaper for lube.
there is autosofts for everything  8)