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Routing Matrix Traffic & Hidden/Passive Node: SR4a vs UnWired

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Redjack

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« on: <08-23-11/1328:24> »
Quote from: SR4a, pg218
The routing functions of a device are handled by a separate component of hardware than the other functions of the device.  This makes the routing process invisible to the user, and allows the device’s node to connect to the Matrix even when it is operating in Hidden mode
- VS. -

Quote from: Unwired, pg54
Due to the mesh-network nature  of  the  Matrix,  every  wireless node can function as a router and will do so if not in passive or hidden mode

These two seem to be in conflict. The Unwired definition seems to make more sense than the basic rules though.

Can I get an official clarification/errata?

Valashar

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« Reply #1 on: <08-23-11/2231:02> »
It means that the comlink in question can send its own signal to connect to the matrix when it's in hidden mode, but that the signals of other comlinks will not be bounced through it as a mesh router.
Shadowrun Missions: GenCon 2013

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Redjack

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« Reply #2 on: <08-23-11/2255:52> »
As a device in hidden mode will neither connect to devices that do not authenticate, nor advertise its presence, I appreciate your response but it is not consistent with RAW.

Quote from: Unwired, pg54
How does a connection know what route it needs to take? What sequence of nodes it must hop through to reach its destination? Simply put, the node broadcasts a “routing request” which is then passed along by all nodes around it, and so on, leaving backwards pointers at each step along the way, until
it reaches the target. The destination then follows the route request trails back, and a connection is established. To help such routing along, backbone infrastructure nexi maintain routing databases.
A hidden node will not appear on a route, therefor matrix messages cannot be routed back to it. That leaves us with mutual signal range communications via broadcast, ergo: PAN.

I am actually looking for an official confirmation that either Unwired supersedes the base book or errata to make Unwired consistent with the base book.

kirk

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« Reply #3 on: <08-24-11/0924:17> »
Quote from: SR4a, pg218
The routing functions of a device are handled by a separate component of hardware than the other functions of the device.  This makes the routing process invisible to the user, and allows the device’s node to connect to the Matrix even when it is operating in Hidden mode
- VS. -

Quote from: Unwired, pg54
Due to the mesh-network nature  of  the  Matrix,  every  wireless node can function as a router and will do so if not in passive or hidden mode

These two seem to be in conflict. The Unwired definition seems to make more sense than the basic rules though.

Can I get an official clarification/errata?

Yesterday, I agreed with the part I emphasized in your post (quoted). After sleeping on it, I think I'm going to disagree. The reason is that passive nodes can still be automatically seen and hidden nodes can be found with matrix perception tests.  I'll take discussion of this to another forum.

Valashar

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« Reply #4 on: <08-24-11/0950:43> »
The comlink in question, in hidden mode, will always be able to connect to the Matrix so long as it remains capable of wireless transmission/reception. This is because the comlink knows that the Matrix is out there to connect to and, following input from its OS and programs, will send out queries/commands/data requests as its user desires. It will then listen for the responses and accept them. By the simple virtue that it is activity that the comlink itself sent out, the response is considered authorized input. In short, the comlink in question tells the data where to go and then sits there waiting for it.

Now, that same comlink in question has, by virtue of going into hidden mode, turned off that background part of itself, that invisible-to-the-user foundation process that allows other devices to automatically 'know' that it is there. The other devices around will still send out their signals in all directions, but the comlink in question will ALWAYS refuse these background routing processes unless the process in question comes from: 1) a device that is on its white list (the list of comlinks/devices/accounts that are allowed to know that it exists even when hidden), or 2) data that is the result of its own actions/queries as described above.

To sum up, the two lines you've quoted from the books are not contradictory. They describe different aspects of normal comlink function. Going into hidden mode does not sever the comlink from the Matrix. It only makes it so it cannot be automatically detected by it. This is why nodes in active or passive mode are automatically picked up with a simple scan for nodes action, but hidden nodes require their own action which takes longer and is more action intensive, but still very possible. They are the Matrix equivalent of the shut-in who pretends they're not at home when the doorbell rings. Someone who's just passing by will accept that no one is there because no one answered the door. But it is very possible to determine that someone is actually there through other means (looking through windows, listening at the door, etc.).

EDIT: Spelling/grammar errors.
« Last Edit: <08-24-11/0956:12> by Valashar »
Shadowrun Missions: GenCon 2013

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bigity

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« Reply #5 on: <08-24-11/1535:01> »
You are talking about detecting the node itself.  He is talking about the routing, which is explicitly stated to be handled by separate hardware.  The books contradict each other on when this hardware actually routes data based on the mode of the node it's attached to.

The router part of a node forwards all traffic according to SR4A, and only when in Active mode according to Unwired. 

Scanning for nodes or perception tests for the node have nothing to do with this.

Redjack

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« Reply #6 on: <08-25-11/1311:25> »
Yesterday, I agreed with the part I emphasized in your post (quoted). After sleeping on it, I think I'm going to disagree. The reason is that passive nodes can still be automatically seen and hidden nodes can be found with matrix perception tests.  I'll take discussion of this to another forum.
I replied there. The root of your confusion appears to stem from an understanding of how computer networks work. I hope my post there helps.

You are talking about detecting the node itself.  He is talking about the routing, which is explicitly stated to be handled by separate hardware.  The books contradict each other on when this hardware actually routes data based on the mode of the node it's attached to.

The router part of a node forwards all traffic according to SR4A, and only when in Active mode according to Unwired. 

Scanning for nodes or perception tests for the node have nothing to do with this.
Exactly. Thanks! ;)