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Seems that the next metaplot is infected and "elder gods?"

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Lorebane24

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« on: (22:35:20/03-22-18) »
I've been combing through all of my sourcebooks lately in preparation for paper I'm writing for a game design course, as well as brushing up on various forums, and there are a few pieces from the most recent sourcebooks that just fit together too nicely.  So there's a lot going on and the chips could fall in a lot of ways, but the fact that these few things seem to be linked, and that, collectively, they have been appearing more often in the books (and especially on the tarot cards) leads me to believe that the big 5th ed culmination metaplot (in line with the Chicago fiasco, Crash 2.0, and the Great Dragon Civil War) is going to see the food crisis burst open in Asamando, resulting in ghoul cannibalism that results in some sort of Horror-based threat (who they seem to be rebranding as the Elder Gods so they can use them again).

The whole bringing back and updating the Horrors, I think, would click well with an overarching nostalgic theme that seems permeate 5th ed (bug spirits coming back to the fore, Deus showing up in Boston - essentially a different spin on old shit, which, so far, I've loved).  On top of that, we've recently been seeing updates on, right alongside the Elder God stuff, more action and activity from bug spirits and the shedim, who have historically been indicators that the Horrors are drawing closer to our metaplane.

Then, working back from there, Forbidden Arcana has a full chapter that pretty closely ties Ordo Maximus to the Elder Gods (whether they know it or not), and seems to imply a connection the HMHVV virus has to them that can either be strengthened or brought out via ghoul cannibalism.

And then on top of that, an incipient food crisis has been looming over Adamando for a while now.  The thing that really sold it for me was an image I came across earlier (it's old news by now, but I'm not sure how widely known it is) that demonstrates if you line up the bottoms of the minor arcana in a sixth world tarot deck correclty, the little dots at the bottoms create a map of the world.  If you do it with the aces, the court cards, and the major arcana, same deal, except the dots are arranged so that there is clearly a ring rippling out into the world.  And wouldn't you know it?  The epicenter of that ring is right in the middle of Asamando.
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Opti

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« Reply #1 on: (23:01:45/03-22-18) »
I live for people like you.

Lorebane24

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« Reply #2 on: (23:09:52/03-22-18) »
I've heard your name.  You've got a podcast or something, right?
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Opti

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« Reply #3 on: (23:15:34/03-22-18) »
it is crap.

Rosa

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« Reply #4 on: (08:51:50/03-23-18) »
There was a forum discussion about the elder gods thing a while back, and while the horror connection is tenous at best, unless they have decided to revamp the horrors, which I dearly hope they haven't, the shadow spirit connection is much more clear. Gaf,Tak, Dru and Obe are directly mentioned in the elder gods chapter, and they are defined in Aetherology as great shadow spirits. That mention also establishes a connection to the Aleph society chapter in Threats 2.

Following what we know about the horrors the first incursions should be far in SR's future,  of course that doesn't mean that they can't be present through cults and individuals working for them, but unless as I said, they have decided to revamp them, they won't show up anytime soon. Which is a good thing because SR has more than enough metaphysical threats established in its lore already, you just have to use them.

Personally I'm happy to see new love shown towards the infected and the Invae as threats, and also shadow spirits, which I think have been very underused so far.

Lorebane24

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« Reply #5 on: (10:42:00/03-23-18) »
I honestly wouldnt mind if they're rebranding the horrors.  It's really just a name, and I think the 5th ed writers have done a fantastic job with cool lore in this edition, so I would trust them to do something nifty without falling into the trap of "we're calling them Elder Gods so lets stick some public domain lovecraft shit in there."  In the same vein, I wouldnt mind if it was shadow spirits either.  Im sure wherever they go with it, it'll be cool.

That being said, the detectives in that chapter in Dark Terrors wave off the incident as not matching shadow spirit MO, and the sidebar about them appears right next to another sidebar about the Dweller taking a vacation and other things like that.  In the same chapter, Glitch mentions the apparently disparate files share a theme, s so I think that the fact this shit shows up alongside that bridge-building artifact adds a further cinnection to the horros.

It's also been established (and recently reinforced) that the GGD accelerated the timeline of the horror's return drastically.  Even if the bridge was borken back then, there is a precedant that it can be reconstructed, like, now.

So currently, I imagine that they are going to hint that "elder gods" may be a category of supremly powerful horrors.  Crawlers and gum toads can be fought and killed, but it's when the elder gods show up that dragons go underground.  I think that the LILITU angle is probably Ordo disovering that one specific elder god, tied to the HMHVV, has an alternate bridge into this plane that is opened when infected begin feeding on one another on a large scale.
« Last Edit: (23:42:53/03-23-18) by Lorebane24 »
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Marcus

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« Reply #6 on: (16:43:34/03-23-18) »
I do think Nuking Ghoul land while we still have time is the best option.


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Opti

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« Reply #7 on: (20:56:19/03-23-18) »
what if a thing existed , but people perceived it to be something else and were confused? Would the people who believed in the thing, even if they got it wrong, be wrong? or would people who knew nothing of the thing be more right, not even knowing?

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firebug

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« Reply #8 on: (21:13:07/03-23-18) »
So currently, I imagine that they are going to hint that "elder gods" may be a category of supremly powerful horrors.  Crawlers and gum toads can be fought and killed, but it's when the elder gods show up that dragons go underground.  I think that the LILITU angle is probably Ordo disovering that one specific elder god, tied to the HMHVV, has an alternate bridge into this plane that is opened when infected begin feeding on one another on a large scale.

Man, I am not up to date on the metaplots.  But that sounds really really interesting.  Dark Terrors is legitimately one of the best books released for SR5.

But man, I wish I had the ability to connect the dots like you seem to be, Lorebane24.  Do you follow stuff like horror ARGs too?

I...  Didn't consider the fact that the Horrors are potentially an Earthdawn IP and that calling them Elder Gods could be a way to avoid any sticky situations with that.  I only heard about the horrors from people who played for decades (I joined at the end of 4th Edition).

Also, the ability of Infected to feed on eachother has been something I've been wondering about for actual months.  Maybe longer.  I made a thread on here about it ages ago, so if they take it in that direction, I guess I can consider that an official "Yes, and".
« Last Edit: (21:18:01/03-23-18) by firebug »
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Jeeze.  It would almost sound stupid until you realize we're talking about an immortal elf clown sword fighting a dragon ghost in a mall.

Lorebane24

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« Reply #9 on: (21:22:58/03-23-18) »
I credit my background in teaching English and rhetoric!  I spent a few years working with high school students in China who were getting ready for AP English exams, so to teach them the skills for the synthesis essay information (basically "Here's a topic, here are 6-8 sources about that topic, now you have 45 minutes to incorporate some of them into an argument on that topic).  Suffice it to say spending so much time teaching other people to connect dots to reach meaningful conclusions has really sharpened my ability to do the same.

I'm not sure what ARGs though, are.  Is that a product line?  I my library of 5th ed books is pretty extensive, but haven't ever taken a look at missions or published adventures - I like to put my own spin on the world in my games, and I feel like the books have enough lore teasers in them that I don't need to turn to published adventures for ideas.  I mean I'm sure they'd each have some fun tidbits, but I don't think I'd get enough use out of them personally to justify the price tag.
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firebug

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« Reply #10 on: (21:34:09/03-23-18) »
ARG are "Alternate Reality Games".  The most mainstream/earliest of which was called Marble Hornets (if you've heard of it or want to learn more).  They're a unique form of storytelling where an on-going story (usually horror and mystery) is told from an in-character perspective across multiple social media platforms, like youtube videos, twitter accounts, etc.  Many even go as far as making fake websites.  Viewer participation is a major part, viewers get together to intepret clues and codes and interact with characters on social media to help them solve the mystery.  If you're interested in knowing more I could link you to a YouTube channel that discusses and explains some of them.  I think they're absolutely fascinating.  The "line up the bottoms of tarot cards to find a picture of a map" thing is right along the lines a lot of these ARGs try to do.  Though obviously most can't release a product for sale like Catalyst can.
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Jeeze.  It would almost sound stupid until you realize we're talking about an immortal elf clown sword fighting a dragon ghost in a mall.

PiXeL01

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« Reply #11 on: (22:14:33/03-23-18) »
Iím amazed by those who do connect the dots. Personally I suck at it and need people like you to spell it out for me.
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Lorebane24

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« Reply #12 on: (22:44:16/03-23-18) »
ARG are "Alternate Reality Games".  The most mainstream/earliest of which was called Marble Hornets (if you've heard of it or want to learn more).  They're a unique form of storytelling where an on-going story (usually horror and mystery) is told from an in-character perspective across multiple social media platforms, like youtube videos, twitter accounts, etc.  Many even go as far as making fake websites.  Viewer participation is a major part, viewers get together to intepret clues and codes and interact with characters on social media to help them solve the mystery.  If you're interested in knowing more I could link you to a YouTube channel that discusses and explains some of them.  I think they're absolutely fascinating.  The "line up the bottoms of tarot cards to find a picture of a map" thing is right along the lines a lot of these ARGs try to do.  Though obviously most can't release a product for sale like Catalyst can.

Ooooh, okay!  I would say that these are... new to me.  In the game design course I'm in the middle of, we did read a bit about a game like that called AI from a decade or two ago.  Shadowrun has become my favorite RPG largely because of how the lore is distributed and the sense of accomplishment that comes from becoming one of those "in the know" (that and my uncommon love of cyberpunk shit).  A few weeks back I snapped up a few books for to get idea for an upcoming game, Book of the Lost among them, and the way they teased shit in there really stirred something - it's only in the last few months I've been getting REALLY into this, so it definitely sounds like something worth looking into.  What would be a good place to start?

I ought to reiterate though, that I didn't find the map thing myself (I did test it with my own deck with glee, though), I stumbled across that when I was digging around reddit forums for lore and ideas.
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Marcus

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« Reply #13 on: (05:19:37/03-24-18) »
The question is it the horror or the elder gods is really meaningless one. In the long game it doesn't matter if the Elder God are the Horrors or vis versa. Nostalgia is great but the game is the game. Regardless of how you label an incoming threats, the most important part of the conversation is that they are incoming threat. You gotta deal with the threat as they show up, you can't hold back dealing with the elder gods just b/c the horror might be right around the corner. Soul sucking creatures from beyond gotta get got. Regardless of who's next on the get got list. Focusing on the Bridge, and how to hurt and slow down an incoming threat seems like the first step in countering said incoming threat. I assume we will all learn more about how to do that, as information becomes available and we see what Jackpoint gets itself up to. Perhaps in the Neo-Tokyo line, folks will get to begin perusing this line further. I do think the point made by the cards is the most serous one.
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ChromeCoyote

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« Reply #14 on: (16:27:24/03-30-18) »
what if a thing existed , but people perceived it to be something else and were confused? Would the people who believed in the thing, even if they got it wrong, be wrong? or would people who knew nothing of the thing be more right, not even knowing?

 - Man of Many Names
People who fear shadows see shadows when they feel fear. People who fear horrors see horrors when they feel fear. Who's to say horrors do not lurk in shadows?  ;D

On another note,  I took the whole "Elder Gods" thing to be some force (we'll see which it turns out to be) playing on an existing mythos within the 6th world's psyche to attract followers. Essentially, the cthulhu mythos already exists, we want followers, let's use the existing paradigm instead of trying to introduce a new one and gain some followers/power. Alternately, a lot of the things in the cthulhu mythos are Babylonian (or similar) in origin, and could be pieces of an older understanding of certain big bads, but not as old or refined as the understanding that existed in the 4th world (some knowledge was lost between ED and Babylon, essentially).