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Trolls and Goggles.

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dragonslayerclan

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« Reply #15 on: (19:43:40/03-19-18) »
OK me and my GM went over this in long detail.
Page 281 core Magic section
STEP 2: CHOOSE THE TARGET

"Any technological visual aid that digitizes or augments the visual input
for you (a camera, electronic binoculars, Matrix feeds,
etc.) doesn’t work—you’re looking at a generated image,
not the light from the real target. Spellcasting by visual
targeting is subject to normal visibility modifiers. You can
use visual targeting to target astral targets when you’re
in astral space (you’re not technically seeing them, but
the analogy works).

Do to in the book  on Page 444 core VISION ENHANCEMENTS
is where the Samrtlink is it is not an overlay it is an digitize  VISION ENHANCEMENTS. YES image link is in the same part.
However Imagelink states out right you can see though it. so there for it is not a digitize vision.


With this being a HUGE misunderstanding. He is allowing me to do a complete rework of my Adetp Troll
That is an ok middle ground for me for now.


So now I am reworking him
things that have to stay the same:
Troll Adept
Shotgun user
with a little Demonlition
nothing over  Availability 19, 19r or 19f

I am keeping his body at 10 and going to get it to a 14 (though Adept power so i get extra hit boxes)
out side of that i have free rain to do a total rework.
b10/14 a4 r4 str5 will5 log4 cha 2
Skills and cyber/bioware and adpet powers (out side of body +4) are open to be played with.
He is not a melee or unarm monkey.

Any ideas would be helpful.
I only want to take 1 point of magic and ess lost. so not to cray on bio/cyberware. do to the fact i am keeping my body at 14
Bonelaceing is out. He feels it count to you aug body and really like having the extra hit boxes and overflow.
I like the Adept way the athete's way because I do plan on upping his Agility and Reaction to the max as well and that makes it cheaper to do so

thinking about these cyber/bioware.
Imagelink
SMARTLINK :)
Pain editor (no wound pen and +1 will while it is on)
Platelet Factories (- one damage sounds nice)
going to make them Deltaware if I can. the Suprathyriod Gland wound be Cool just the nuyen cost is to high. i will not have the nuyen to get it.

Marcus

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« Reply #16 on: (00:24:28/03-20-18) »
Not to be a downer on the whole thing but in the end, this is just 1 die for ranged combat in mode of vision.  GM has to run their table with their best understanding of the rules, and in then it's their call on what that is. In the long run it's just not a big deal, and he even offered a way to get it if you should want it. I wouldn't drop a point of magic for 2 dice on a shooting tests but to each their own.
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dragonslayerclan

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« Reply #17 on: (23:05:37/03-20-18) »
Not to be a downer on the whole thing but in the end, this is just 1 die for ranged combat in mode of vision.  GM has to run their table with their best understanding of the rules, and in then it's their call on what that is. In the long run it's just not a big deal, and he even offered a way to get it if you should want it. I wouldn't drop a point of magic for 2 dice on a shooting tests but to each their own.
not true. if you do not have smarlink at all.
without it you lose
1. Accuracy by 2.
2. 1 dies to hit with unless you have it smartlink eyes now it is to
3.Free action switch between gun modes, not as simple action of Change Device Mode (Page 164 core)
4. Mentally fire the gun without pulling the trigger (Page 162 core)
5. use you gun to look around a corner (page 433 core)
6. Free actoin eject a clip not a simple action. (Page 162 core)
7. being able to shoot around a corner at - 3. not blind fire at -6. (page 433 core)
8. lower the pen when doing a long range shot for Wind by 1 rank IE  -10 to -6, or -6 to -3 ro -3 to -1 ot -1 to -0 (page 175 core) I fell this is not a well know fact.
9. smartlink shotguns (use use these on the character i have benn talking about here)"The shotgun user can set his weapon’s choke for a narrow spread, medium spread, or wide spread. Changing the choke setting requires a Simple Action (or a Free Action if the shotgun is smartlinked). (page 180 and 165 core)
10. help when throwing more then one weapon around. you get a +1 dice after the frist throw in a full combat turn. (page424 core) i.e. my first imitative pass I trow  two knifes. (useing both hands to throw stuff.) my first throw is no bonus, my next it a +1, my next Initiative Pass starts off at a +2 so no so no till your out of you Initiative Passes for that combat turn.
11. Smart firing platform. if your have smartlink you can use it here as weel at full bounces. (Page 432 core)
12. it has rang finder. I use this alot to see how far a fall it or a jump. so i know if i can make it. (page 432)
13. it keeps track of my ammo count so i do not lose count.(yes my GM make do roll to see if we have kept count right. (page 432)
14. makes it hard to use a stolen smartlink gun. (core page 234) cause you till the gun not to fire any more. untill they hack it. Hint Hacker hint hint
15. 11 guns in the core book alone come with it cause it is such a good thing to have.
16. the Smartlin gun get a "The small camera has a capacity of 1 and can be equipped with vision enhancements." (page 433 core)

these are huge loses NOT to have a smartlink.


Reaver

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« Reply #18 on: (23:12:40/03-20-18) »
I get the GMs argument.

I was going to point out that the Vision enhancment had a wireless function, which screamed to me a digital image. The way I see it, you have a pair of Vision Enhancement goggles -with a couple of overlays being the smart-link and image link- and that means its a digital image. Just my way of seeing it.

On the re-work, IMO, you are better served by keeping your magic as high as possible. This is because the cost of gaining a magic point is way more intensive than gaining an extra die or two if in the right situation.


 
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« Reply #19 on: (23:23:01/03-20-18) »
I'll go out on a limb and say I can see a reason to support the described GM's position.

The Optical Devices section of SR5 (pg 444) includes the following line:
Quote
These devices use optical technology (glass bending or
reflecting light), not electronics, to function.

That the line even exists implies that they are different in that way from other visual devices such as Glasses, Goggles, etc (Optical and Imaging devices.  SR5 pg 443).  It's perfectly reasonable to presume that language implies Optical and Imaging devices provide an electronically rendered image as opposed to the Optical Devices that actually manipulate natural light waves.

Now, that Devil's Advocacy being said, I'm not sure I'd be on board with actually putting my foot down and insisting on that reading.  Because Optical Devices, unlike Optical and Imaging Devices, do not have a capacity and therefore do not have the ability to be customized to include modifications like Smartlink.  Of course, a GM would certainly be within his rights to say that's not a bug in the rules, it's a feature and working as intended.  Magic and tech are SUPPOSED to have a hard time working together, afterall....

Marcus

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« Reply #20 on: (01:21:20/03-21-18) »
Not to be a downer on the whole thing but in the end, this is just 1 die for ranged combat in mode of vision.  GM has to run their table with their best understanding of the rules, and in then it's their call on what that is. In the long run it's just not a big deal, and he even offered a way to get it if you should want it. I wouldn't drop a point of magic for 2 dice on a shooting tests but to each their own.
not true. if you do not have smarlink at all.
without it you lose
1. Accuracy by 2.
2. 1 dies to hit with unless you have it smartlink eyes now it is to
3.Free action switch between gun modes, not as simple action of Change Device Mode (Page 164 core)
4. Mentally fire the gun without pulling the trigger (Page 162 core)
5. use you gun to look around a corner (page 433 core)
6. Free actoin eject a clip not a simple action. (Page 162 core)
7. being able to shoot around a corner at - 3. not blind fire at -6. (page 433 core)
8. lower the pen when doing a long range shot for Wind by 1 rank IE  -10 to -6, or -6 to -3 ro -3 to -1 ot -1 to -0 (page 175 core) I fell this is not a well know fact.
9. smartlink shotguns (use use these on the character i have benn talking about here)"The shotgun user can set his weapon’s choke for a narrow spread, medium spread, or wide spread. Changing the choke setting requires a Simple Action (or a Free Action if the shotgun is smartlinked). (page 180 and 165 core)
10. help when throwing more then one weapon around. you get a +1 dice after the frist throw in a full combat turn. (page424 core) i.e. my first imitative pass I trow  two knifes. (useing both hands to throw stuff.) my first throw is no bonus, my next it a +1, my next Initiative Pass starts off at a +2 so no so no till your out of you Initiative Passes for that combat turn.
11. Smart firing platform. if your have smartlink you can use it here as weel at full bounces. (Page 432 core)
12. it has rang finder. I use this alot to see how far a fall it or a jump. so i know if i can make it. (page 432)
13. it keeps track of my ammo count so i do not lose count.(yes my GM make do roll to see if we have kept count right. (page 432)
14. makes it hard to use a stolen smartlink gun. (core page 234) cause you till the gun not to fire any more. untill they hack it. Hint Hacker hint hint
15. 11 guns in the core book alone come with it cause it is such a good thing to have.
16. the Smartlin gun get a "The small camera has a capacity of 1 and can be equipped with vision enhancements." (page 433 core)

these are huge loses NOT to have a smartlink.

That is very amusing list, i think 15 is my favorite thought 16 is right up there with it. But to address your points, about 10 items on that list, any and all that involve free mental/mental related all require implanted smartlinks, so your not getting any of those regardless, unless you put essence into it. As to 15 All the guns in the core can have it, in fact all the guns in the game can have it which really isn't anything your losing. I don't really get the relevance of 16 at all as you could still make full use of that. As to accuracy  smart goggles/lenses still gets that, and the even get 1 die bonus to hit. Plenty of adepts never touch a smartlink, and are very effective, if you don't have one your gun can't get hacked. Laser sights work great. Chill dude, or take the essence hit and get the implant. Ether way problem solved.
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dragonslayerclan

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« Reply #21 on: (04:51:16/04-27-18) »
so an update here on the smartlink thing. if you are wearing Trodes you can use these action:

Free action switch between gun modes, not as simple action of Change Device Mode (Page 164 core).
Mentally fire the gun without pulling the trigger (Page 162 core).
Free actoin eject a clip not a simple action. (Page 162 core).
The shotgun user can set his weapon’s choke for a narrow spread, medium spread, or wide spread. Changing the choke setting requires a Simple Action (or a Free Action if the shotgun is smartlinked). (page 180 and 165 core).
Use a Smart firing platform. if your have smartlink you can use it here as weel at full bounces. (Page 432 core).

So that some good new. been trying to find a way i could use those option if i wanted to with out losing ess.

Marcus

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« Reply #22 on: (15:05:39/04-28-18) »
OH your back! WB!

As to trode thing, the examples you give on 164 are simple actions which you could just do anyways, nothing about trode connections there. 162 are action category examples, 162 doesn't discuss mentally fire the gun, so no idea where your getting that from. So I'm gonna gonna keep on with you want the free action stuff you need the implant. But Good Luck with it!

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Xenon

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« Reply #23 on: (06:59:26/05-06-18) »
No smartlink and no smartgun

Wireless disabled firearm connected with a wire to external imaging device (such as googles):
* Shoot around corners without exposing yourself (if the firearm also have a camera or periscope) [p. 177]

Wireless enabled firearm + imaging link in external device (such as contacts) or installed in natural eyes or by having cybereyes:
* Display ammo levels as ARO [p. 424]
* Display ammo type loaded as ARO [p. 424]
* Shoot around corners without exposing yourself (if the firearm also have a camera or periscope) [p. 177]

Wireless enabled firearm + DNI (which you for example can get from wearing trodes):
* Display ammo levels as ARO [p. 424]
* Display ammo type loaded as ARO [p. 424]
* Shoot around corners without exposing yourself (if the firearm also have a camera or periscope) [p. 177]
* Ejecting clip is a Free Action (rather than a Simple Action) [p. 424]
* Changing firing mode is a Free Action (rather than a Simple Action) [p. 424]


Smartgun + external smartlink

Wireless disabled smartgun connected with a wire to external smartlink device (such as goggles):
* Shoot around corners without exposing yourself (smartgun comes with a camera) [p. 433]
* Accuracy +2 (range to target, as well as heat buildup, mechanical stress etc)

Smartgun connected wireless working in concert with DNI + Smartlink in external device (such as contacts):
* Display ammo levels as ARO [p. 424]
* Display ammo type loaded as ARO [p. 424]
* Shoot around corners without exposing yourself (smartgun comes with a camera) [p. 433]
* Ejecting clip is a Free Action (rather than a Simple Action) [p. 424]
* Changing firing mode is a Free Action (rather than a Simple Action) [p. 424]
* Mentally fire gun without pulling the trigger [p. 433]
* Wind shifts one row up [p. 175]
* Accuracy +2 (range to target, as well as heat buildup, mechanical stress etc) [p. 433]
* +1 positive dice pool modifier [p. 433]


Smartgun + internal smartlink

Wireless disabled smartgun connected with a wire to a datajack + Smartlink installed in natural eyes or in a pair of cybereyes:
* Shoot around corners without exposing yourself (smartgun comes with a camera) [p. 433]
* Accuracy +2 (range to target, as well as heat buildup, mechanical stress etc)

Smartgun connected wireless working in concert with DNI + Smartlink installed in in natural eyes or in a pair of cybereyes:
* Display ammo levels as ARO [p. 424]
* Display ammo type loaded as ARO [p. 424]
* Shoot around corners without exposing yourself (smartgun comes with a camera) [p. 433]
* Ejecting clip is a Free Action (rather than a Simple Action) [p. 424]
* Changing firing mode is a Free Action (rather than a Simple Action) [p. 424]
* Mentally fire gun without pulling the trigger [p. 433]
* Wind shifts one row up [p. 175]
* Accuracy +2 (range to target, as well as heat buildup, mechanical stress etc) [p. 433]
* +2 positive dice pool modifier [p. 433]


edit to format the text and again to add page references
« Last Edit: (10:00:22/05-06-18) by Xenon »

Marcus

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« Reply #24 on: (18:29:20/05-06-18) »
A wireless link is not DNI. So you do need something allows DNI, 424 doesn't discuss that as being something necessarily possibly without an implant. So at minimum you would need trodes but I'm not sure that working as intended or even RAW.


 If you have a DNI, you get two additional benefits. First, ejecting a clip (for
weapons that have them) is a Free Action rather than a
Simple Action. Second, changing fire modes (on models
that have more than one) is a Free Action rather than
a Simple Action.
(Core 424)


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Xenon

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« Reply #25 on: (01:43:29/05-07-18) »
All you need to get DNI is to wear trodes.

(You can also get DNI with a datajack or with an internal comlink or cyberdeckk)