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First build assistance: Gun using Adept Face

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Plastic-Man

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« on: (16:35:34/03-12-18) »
Hi all, new to Shadowrun and I'm thinking of making a gun using an adept face for my first character, I like the idea of being relevant in most situations. There's a few topics about adepts that I can see but I thought it would be best if I posted mine to see if I can get any critiques or help on fleshing it out. So many things to choose in this game, your never sure if it's a trap or if your missing something.

Just looking to see how it will all work out defensively and offensively. Is it worth taking improved ability for Automatics or is that overkill?

A: Attributes
B: Skills
C: Metatype (elf)
D: Magic
E: Resources

Attributes
Body. . . . . . . . . . . .5
Agility . . . . . . . . . . 7
Reaction . . . . . . . . 5
Strength . . . . . . . . .2 (bought up with karma)
Willpower . . . . . . . 3
Logic . . . . . . . . . . . 2
Intuition. . . . . . . . . 5
Charisma. . . . . . . . 7

Edge….2 (bought up with Karma)
Magic…5

Skills

6 ranks automatic (Rifle?)
6 ranks Monofilament whip - Seems like a cool melee weapon for this who aren't on the burly side, potential utility.
6 ranks con (fast talking)
6 ranks perception (visual)
6 ranks sneaking (urban)
5 group points in the influence group

2 points left over, will need to pick up lots of one pointers like gymnastics, disguise, piloting skills

Karma

With Karma I need to spend 20 on some stats to not start with any 1's

Need to spend some karma to get some basic starting gear

Positive Qualities
- 5 Mentor Spirit Raven, excellent sneaking and face abilities
- 3 Hawkeye
Not a 100% sure what else, could use some recommendations, first impression maybe.
Even after that it will be 6 positive qualities left over

Negative Qualities

I'll decide on my own, this is seems more of a personalized character thing.

Adept Powers

For this one Improved physical attribute is a placeholder, I plan to get 1 essence worth of Bioware in the long game and this will be what gets dropped for muscle toner.

Traceless walk (Raven)
Voice Control (raven)
1 pp Improved physical attribute agility
0.25 pp nimble fingers
0.25 pp facial sculpt
0.5 combat sense, possibly more ranks
1.5 - 3 ranks Improved ability (automatics)

That leaves 1.5 PP that I'm not sure about. Some say mystic armor is a trap and I'm not sure why.

Gear

Real basic stuff, gun, armor, rent, comm and a sin. First big purchase will be that whip.

Ogrepot

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« Reply #1 on: (18:38:42/03-12-18) »
I see several problems with your character:
- Automatics with Str 2 means you'll have a problem with recoil, maybe Pistol is a better choice (and Rifle goes with Longarms)
- you have a good reaction and intuition, but you could have lowered reaction a little and used improved reflexes power to raise it with your initiative (at least enough to be able to get an interrupt action and keep your second pass)
- facial sculpt without any rank in the Disguise skill
- YOUR WILLPOWER IS TOO LOW FOR A FACE, social skills are opposed CHA vs WILL... you initiate well but you can't resist correctly (this point is the most important)

On the positive note, at least you didn't go with 1 in LOG, so many do that... and then play smartass at the table... but even with 2 you're not bright but know how to spell your name and how to read a sign.

So i would have changed this way (i rewrite only what i change):
BOD 4
REACTION 4 (5 with Improve Reflexes)
WILL 4 (or 5 if you have the 2nd point from LOG assured or enough karma)
LOG 2 (if you bought those points with karma to begin with, then get a point there)

- Automatics rank 0
- Pistol rank 6 (SA)
- Monofilament rank 0 (personal i hate this thing, you'd be good with it, but i can't stand it...)
- Gymnastics 4 (or 3 + spec)
- Disguise 4 (or 3 + spec) --- this one goes with Facial Sculpt that you took

Qualities:
Agile Defender or Too Pretty to Hit is a must for your character (maybe in place of Hawk Eye)
Trustworthy (more expensive than First Impression, but i think it would be better with your build, especially if you intend to re-work the NPCs you meet)

Negative Quality:
You can go for Poor Self Control: Thrill Seeker, with your Composure you don't even have to roll to keep your wits and you gain +1 to initiative for the first 5 combat turns, and you gain 4 karma)

Adept Powers:
Improved Reflexes 1 (or 2 if you get the Mag 6 choice)
Improved Ability (Pistol) 2
Enhance Senses: Vision Magnification (if you replace Hawk Eye and you want to keep the long range vision without Glasses nor Contacts)
Attribute Boost (Agility) 1 (2 if you don't take Enhanced Senses)
- you can drop Improved Ability (Pistol) to 1 if you have 2 ranks in Attribute Boost Agility, to get the Rapid Healing power and use karma to get the Revenant Adept Magic Mastery Quality. It is a life savior if you're badly wounded (the like off i don't burn an EDGE point and still walk out alive) but it also means that there will be no Bioware or Cyberware for you unless you buy Delta Grade later. So this option is not liked by many....

Hope you like my options.

« Last Edit: (18:41:02/03-12-18) by Ogrepot »

Plastic-Man

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« Reply #2 on: (19:20:20/03-12-18) »
Thanks for replying.

Checking the rules I would get one more point of recoil compensation for having capped strength, is it really that much of a difference that I would forego using automatic weapons? genuine question, I've still yet to play, there seems to be things you can add to a weapon and it seems to be the case that any simple action removes recoil. As long as I don't full auto for days it should be ok. Rifle is assault rifle, idea being that if I am in a situation that allows assault rifles it's the one where I will need that extra damage.

Do players have to test against opposed social skills in any meaningful way? There was sense motive in D&D to tell if someone was lying but other than that players made there own choice. Even if you believed someone's lie it didn't fully dictate your actions.

Does body not have some sort of cut off point for odd numbers for damage, same with will?

Those are some good recommendations on qualities and is enhanced senses improved senses?

« Reply #3 on: (20:37:36/03-12-18) »
4+STR is usually a good idea for the recoil compensation.

If you're using automatic weapons, recoil is a huge deal.  Remember that the number of bullets you fire in the burst = the recoil penalty you suffer on the attack.  Ideally you want enough recoil compensation to negate all penalty.  For a BF attack, that's RC 3.  For an attack with a simple action from a fully automatic gun, that's 6 bullets.  A long burst is 10 bullets.

Having a strength of 3 or less is just giving away a point of recoil compensation.  You'll need to make that up elsewhere on the gun thru modifications, or suffer the dice pool penalty.  Or as suggested focus on lower rate of fire weapons so recoil doesn't build up on you.

Marcus

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« Reply #4 on: (00:18:12/03-13-18) »
I would always have an odd number in Will and Body.  3s are probably good enough 5 will is nice for composure rolls but if the guys reads the character its probably not the end of the world. Running evens is losing CD boxes.
It's a gunny bunny concept dumping str is fine.
If your gonna run adept have magic 6, power points are key
Next improve reflex always improved reflexes, then combat sense, more combat sense.

If your running SA pistols, i wouldn't get to caught up in recoil comp.  With RC 2 or 3 odds are you will never lose more die or so.
RC is important when your doing serious burst fire, or ever considering FA. But it's rarely an issue a meaingful issue with SA pistols.
So Pistols 6 +2 spec and +3 from magic +7 agi +1 from external Smartlink= 18 your should be good to go with that.

So melee stuff, dumping str is fine, there are easy options, the ol'stun baton, gives you 9S(e) with reach 1. A very easy way to go.
Skill 6 spec +2 agi 7 make 1 point weapon focus for +1 and now your looking at 16 one more then you want for accuracy 5 weapon, and no give cares if you get caught packing a stun baton.

With that i think you're good to go.
« Last Edit: (00:20:04/03-13-18) by Marcus »
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ShadowcatX

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« Reply #5 on: (00:45:29/03-13-18) »
I agree with Marcus (will wonders never ceases), RC is just not that important, you might take a penalty to your attack roll on a long burst but you give them just as big a penalty, if not bigger, and generally as the attacker you will have the advantage. I think you are hurting yourself going elf though, if you went human C you would have a 6 magic and acceptable edge without spending karma.

Ogrepot

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« Reply #6 on: (03:00:43/03-13-18) »
I would still go for WILL 5, for a Face it's usefull.
I might be wrong, but my understanding of the rules is that Assault Rifles are used with the Longarms skill.
I understand that you'd want to play an Elf, played one during my days in SR1, SR2 and SR3... Shadowrun is about playing Metas anyway!
And for the opposed social rolls, i guess it depends on the table, on mine it is VERY VERY meaningful, and it can get you past a lot of opposition or get you surrounded by every possible security very fast.

Marcus

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« Reply #7 on: (03:15:16/03-13-18) »
I might be wrong, but my understanding of the rules is that Assault Rifles are used with the Longarms skill.
Automatics- Machine Pistols, SMGs, and Assault Rifles.
As a Weapon skill It has it's advantages.
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Ogrepot

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« Reply #8 on: (13:26:56/03-13-18) »
True, i checked the rule book this morning and i saw my mistake... ;D

Plastic-Man

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« Reply #9 on: (16:03:10/03-13-18) »
From the looks of things the big change I may make to the character are starting with only 2 magic and bump edge up to 4, then play around with stats, maybe get that 4 strength if I work out whether it would be worth it or not for recoil.

The change will be based on how everyone else builds the character. I've only recently read the rules for initiative in this system and with free actions if high enough I now know why people love it so much. It was really important in D&D but this puts it on another level.

If the party seems well built enough I will take combat reflexes 3 with some high magic otherwise I will dragon ball it and build towards it.

Hobbes

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« Reply #10 on: (19:45:50/03-13-18) »
That is a heck of a first build, well done.  Recoil comp, you need 5 points of recoil comp for a 6 round Simple Action long burst.  Gas Vent 3, Stock 1, Str 2 gets you 1 more, I think you're fine there.

Spend 10 Karma on Nuyen.  Get a Fake SIN rating 3, a crappy Bike, Armored Jacket, decent SMG or Machine Pistol, get on with your day. 

I would really look closely at getting your starting Magic to 6, PP are amazing things.  Mystic Armor is crap.  If you have access to other source books you've got a ton of social options there, Commanding Voice is the big one.

Edge 2 on a face gets rough.  Faces (and hackers) usually have rolls where failure has significant consequences, think about Elf A or B.  Huge investment I know, but really edge 2 means you're likely to be out of Edge by the time the big fight rolls around.

Overall, I think you'd do well as is.  IMO you're going to regret the Edge after a couple runs.

ZeldaBravo

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« Reply #11 on: (19:07:41/03-14-18) »
A little input on why Mystic Armor is crap: armor is dirt cheap, power points are an expensive and limited resource. It's like trading a bitcoin for a big mac.
*I have problems with clarifying my point in English, so sometimes I might sound stupid or rude.*

« Reply #12 on: (19:11:20/03-14-18) »
A little input on why Mystic Armor is crap: armor is dirt cheap, power points are an expensive and limited resource. It's like trading a bitcoin for a big mac.

When a GM properly enforces what sorts of armor you're allowed to wear in certain sorts of places... Mystic Armor can be worth the price when everyone else has to wear armored clothing at best.  And that's relevant to the Face niche...

ZeldaBravo

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« Reply #13 on: (22:20:03/03-14-18) »
There are business suits with 12 armor. No suits allowed? How about biker armor? Still no? Maybe a jumpsuit? A diver's suit?
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Marcus

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« Reply #14 on: (04:09:14/03-15-18) »
I don't care what anyone says, Sleeping Tiger and Angelic anti-ballistic mask is appropriate for ALL situations.
Just change the color and you're set to jet!
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