NEWS

Total Noob - First attempt at elf adept, gun bunny

  • 15 Replies
  • 3619 Views

culannmac

  • *
  • Newb
  • *
  • Posts: 7
« on: (14:21:06/03-05-18) »
Hi all,

I'm playing SR5 for the very first time and here's my attempt at Elf Physical Adept. This guys background is former military with a checkered past, laying low and doing odd jobs as a merc. So my experience playing him leaves me a little underwhelmed particularly compared to the rest of my group.  He's very much a glass cannon, I don't seem able to dodge bullets and in our first fight I got one-shotted  and spent the rest of the time bleeding out on the floor.  My gaming background is D&D and I assumed an adept would be much like a rogue, weak armor, very hard to hit and high damage.

So please critique my build, any advice as to play a gunslinger would be appreciated as well.   Thanks


Metatype: Elf Adept; Male;
Age: 30;
Height: 1.9m;
Weight:
80kg;
Hair: Brown;
Eyes: Blue;
Skin: Caucasian

A: Skills
B: Magic
C: Attributes
D: Metatype
E: Resources

Attributes
Body. . . . . . . . . . . .4
Agility . . . . . . . . . . 6
Reaction . . . . . . . . 4/ 7
Strength . . . . . . . . .4
Willpower . . . . . . . 2
Logic . . . . . . . . . . . .2
Intuition. . . . . . . . . 3
Charisma. . . . . . . . .3

Special Attributes
Edge….1
Magic…6

Derived Attributes
Essences …6
Initiative 7 /10 + 4 D6

Inherent Limits
[7] Physical Limit
[3] Mental Limit
[5] Social Limit

Movement
Land Movement  12m/24m/+2
Swimming 5m/+2

Active Skills
12 [A] Automatics* 6 (Agi) (Assault Rifles +2, Submachine Guns +2)
13 [A] Blades 7 (Parrying +2, Swords +2)
7 [5] Con) 4 (Cha)
9 [7] Escape Artist 3 (Agi)
5 [5] Etiquette 2 (Cha)
7 [7] Free Fall 3 (Bod)
12 [7] Gymnastics* 6 (Agi) (Parkour +2)
8 [5] Intimidation 5 (Cha)
12 [A] Longarms  (Agi)
8 [3] Perception 5 (Int)
12 [A] Pistols 6 (Agi) (Semi-Automatics)
9 [7] Running  5 (Str)
12 [7] Sneaking 6 (Agi)
8 [7] Swimming  (Str)
12 [A] Unarmed Combat 6 (Agi) (Carromeleg +2, Jujitsu +2, Krav Maga +2)
4 * Athletics Group 4
6 * Firearms Group 6

Knowledge Skills
4 [3] Military Tactics - Field Craft
2 (Log)
4 [3] MOUT military operations in
urban terrain 2 (Log)
5 [3] Security Companies -
Knight Errant 2 (Int)
4 [3] Tír na nÓg - Culture 1 (Int)

Language Skills
N English
5 [3] Gaelic 2
4 [3] Japanese 1

Attribute-Only Tests
5 Composure
6 Judge Intentions
8 Lifting & Carrying
4 Memory

Toxin Resistances
Toxin Disease

Contact    6    6
Ingestion    6    6
Inhalation    6    6
Injection    6    6














Defenses
Ranged attacks against you are at : +0
Ranged Defense (No Action): 12
Full Defense (-10 Interrupt, for the rest of the turn): +2
Agile Full Defense (-10 Interrupt, for the rest of the turn): +6
Melee attacks against you are at : +0
Melee Defense (No Action): 12
Full Defense (-10 Interrupt, for the rest of the turn): +2
Agile Full Defense (-10 Interrupt, for the rest of the turn): +6
Dodge (-5 Interrupt, vs. one melee attack): +10 [7]
Combat Knife Parry (-5 Interrupt, vs. one melee attack): +9 [7]
Katana Parry (-5 Interrupt, vs. one melee attack): +11 [7]
Unarmed Strike Block (-5 Interrupt, vs. one melee attack): +8 [7]
Sensor-aided attacks against you are at : +0
Sensor Defense (No Action): 12 [7]

Damage Resistances
17 Armor 13
17 Acid Protection 13
17 Electricity Protection 13
17 Cold Protection 13
17 Fire Protection 13
17 Falling Protection 13
6 Fatigue Resistance

Addiction Resistance
6 Resist Physical Addiction
4 Resist Psychological Addiction

« Last Edit: (16:54:36/03-05-18) by culannmac »

Tecumseh

  • *
  • Prime Runner
  • *****
  • Posts: 3474
« Reply #1 on: (16:20:17/03-05-18) »
Welcome to the forums!

Thanks for posting your priority distribution; that helps a lot. It would also help to know how you spent your starting karma. I'm also not seeing any of your adept powers nor your qualities, which would go a long way toward helping you revise the build.

The biggest issue with your current build is Skills A, which is giving you too many ways to accomplish the same thing. It's fun to have all three Firearms skills and two different Close Combat skills, but there's an opportunity cost. You'll be better served by picking your favorite gun and your favorite weapon and specializing with those.

Are you allowed to use Sum-to-10 or are you required to use the standard priority system?

If you have to use the standard priority system, then make Attributes A and Skills C. The extra attribute points will go a long way toward boosting your survivability (by boosting Reaction and Intuition, which will make you harder to hit). Plus you'll be able to max out Agility with enough left over to make significant contributions to other attributes.

If you're allowed to use Sum-to-10 then you have a lot more possibilities, but also more decisions to make:
1) If you want more skills, go Metatype D, Magic B, Attributes B, Skills B, Resources E
2) If you want more Edge, go Metatype C, Magic B, Attributes B, Skills C, Resources E

The advantage of #2 is that Edge will help bail you out of situations like the one you found yourself in, namely one-shotted. It all depends on how deadly things are at your table, and from the sounds of it things are plenty dangerous.

Go ahead and add your qualities and adept powers and we'll continue from there.

« Reply #2 on: (16:42:07/03-05-18) »
Go ahead and add your qualities and adept powers and we'll continue from there.

In addition to what Tecumseh said, I have this upon which to opine:

Looks like you bought Improved Reflexes 3.  I'm of the opinion that much investment isn't really the best for a new character.  It's akin to a rigger buying a Mitsubishi Nightsky for his ride.  You COULD do it with a starting character, but there's really so much better things you could be doing with your finite resources.  Something that nice is better for later when you're upgrading.

Not to be a richard to make my point, but seriously:  How much use is it to have a bunch of Initiative Passes if you get geeked in the first one? :]

Indeed we would need to know what qualities and adept powers you picked to be able to give constructive criticism.  Off the cuff: something you should consider if you want to be Efly McNinja is Combat Sense.  Of course, if you already have it, then there are perhaps other suggestions we could offer.

culannmac

  • *
  • Newb
  • *
  • Posts: 7
« Reply #3 on: (16:51:19/03-05-18) »
Thanks so much guys. Here's the other info. I'm running my character through Hero Lab. We're using the Standard Priority system.

Adept Powers
2 Combat Sense
3 Improved Reflexes
Killing Hands
9 Wall Running

Positive Qualities 24 points spent (max 25)
3   Agile Defender
4   Ambidextrous
14 Aptitude (Blades)
1 Will to Live

Negative Qualities 25 points (max 25)
-10 Astral Beacon
-15 Code of Honor: The Code of Wuxia

Martial Art Styles
Firefight
Close Quarter Defense Against Firearms +1d6




Tecumseh

  • *
  • Prime Runner
  • *****
  • Posts: 3474
« Reply #4 on: (21:25:39/03-05-18) »
I notice you're only taking powers from the core rulebook. Is that all you have access to or do you also have Street Grimoire?

Stainless Steel Devil Rat makes reasonable points about Improved Reflexes 3, but if your game is as deadly as it sounds then you might want to keep it. That extra initiative is very valuable for interrupt actions (dodge / parry / full defense) that help keep you alive. Plus, most characters in Shadowrun are glass cannons, as you've discovered. This is true for the NPCs too. Whoever acts first often acts last.

I can't type up a full recommendation at the moment but if you take Attributes A then you could easily end up with 4d6+13 initiative. That gives you a 97% chance of 3 initiative passes (initiative 21+) and an outside 16% chance at 4 initiative passes. If we drop to Improved Reflexes 2 then those odds drop to 74% and 0%, respectively. Combat drugs can help eliminate that gap if you want to go that route.

More later, hopefully tonight.

culannmac

  • *
  • Newb
  • *
  • Posts: 7
« Reply #5 on: (21:34:25/03-05-18) »
Just the Core rulebook. Walk before you run and all that.

Marcus

  • *
  • Ace Runner
  • ****
  • Posts: 1957
  • Success always demands a greater effort.
« Reply #6 on: (21:39:15/03-05-18) »
You're making a gun bunny but have aptitude blades?
*Play-by-Post color guide*
Thinking
com
speaking

culannmac

  • *
  • Newb
  • *
  • Posts: 7
« Reply #7 on: (21:42:31/03-05-18) »
You're making a gun bunny but have aptitude blades?

Yeah I guess not a bright idea. I think I was going for Neo from the Matrix.

Tecumseh

  • *
  • Prime Runner
  • *****
  • Posts: 3474
« Reply #8 on: (01:04:44/03-06-18) »
Here's a rough sketch to pencil in. This advice is going to be fairly optimized given your description of your first session. It sounds like your GM isn't sugar-coating anything.

Attributes A, Magic B, Skills C, Metatype D, Resources E

With Attributes A
BOD 4, AGI 7, REA 5 (8), STR 5, CHA 3, INT 5, LOG 2 (bought with 10 karma), WIL 5, EDG 2 (bought with 10 karma), MAG 6

With Magic B
Improved Reflexes 3 (3.5) - great initiative
Combat Sense 1 (0.5) - good for dodging, but doubly good for always getting to roll surprise
Critical Strike [weapon of choice] (0.5) - to hit harder with your close combat skill of choice
Adrenaline Boost 1 (0.25) - gets those odds of 3 passes up to 99.6% and the odds of 4 passes to 33%
Attribute Boost 1 [AGI] (0.25) - on average, a couple extra dice for your attacks
(1.0PP of whatever you want)

With Skills C
Firearms skill of choice 6 (+spec)
Close Combat skill of choice 6 (+spec)
Sneaking 6 (+spec)
Perception 6 (+spec)
Influence Skill Group 2 (a fig leaf common at most tables, even if you'll never be expected to make social rolls)
Running or Gymnastics 4 (from Magic B, pick Running if you took Wall Running adept power, otherwise Gymnastics)

Now, that seems pretty concentrated, doesn't it? Well you can round things out with a whole bunch of rating 1 skills for 2 karma a pop. Leverage your strong attributes. Even just Skill 1 + Agility 7 = decent dice pool. Options  include:
Locksmith
Palming
Pilot Ground Craft
any Athletics skill
Con
Intimidation
Disguise
Tracking
Computer (useful for Matrix Search)
Arcana (which you'll need to initiate)

Metatype D leaves you stuck with 1 Edge, so buy it up to 2 with 10 points of karma.

Nuyen E is obviously bare bones, so buy it up to ¥26k with 10 points of karma.

Next, Qualities.

Ambidextrous is fine but there is no mechanical benefit to having a sword in each hand. For guns, ambidextrous only helps if you want to load each one with a different ammunition type so that you have the option of tazing some fools and murdering others. A sword in one hand and a gun in another is also viable, and pretty badass, but usually not necessary.

I strongly recommend a mentor spirit. They are bargain priced, add good bonuses, have reasonable disadvantages, and add a ton of flavor. Dragonslayer or Raven are good choices. Maybe Shark if you want to punch things instead of stab them.

Catlike and Natural Athlete are good values, but you may want to prioritize karma for skills. Aptitude is a lousy value. 14 karma for one extra skill point - which, in this case, will likely bring your dice pool up from 15 to 16 - isn't worth it. That's more expensive then your first initiation will be!

Broadly speaking, I would allocate the karma like this:
+25 starting karma
+25 karma from negative qualities
-10 karma for Logic 2
-10 karma for Edge 2
-10 karma for ¥20,000
-5 karma for mentor spirit
= 15 karma for other qualities and rating 1 skills

Picking up skills will make you more rounded right away; picking up qualities is the better long-term investment because they double in price after gameplay starts. It all depends on how concentrated you want to be and what the other skillsets are among the other characters at the table.

I won't get into gear right now because that's a big bucket of inifinity. Generally speaking, prioritize higher Availability items that are harder to track down after gameplay starts, like an R4 fake SIN, or APDS ammo.

That's a starting point. I'll let other agree with me or contradict me as they see fit.

Hobbes

  • *
  • Catalyst Demo Team
  • Ace Runner
  • *
  • Posts: 1839
« Reply #9 on: (12:34:25/03-06-18) »
IIRC Adrenaline Boost doesn't stack with anything and Attribute Boost of 1 only gives you a max of +1 to your dice pools.  Any Background count at all and it's not going to do anything.

With a Str of 5 go with Mono-whip, Shock Gloves, or Stun Batton for your Melee weapon.  As it turns out in Shadowrun NFL linemen hit like a little girls. 

The only other minor tweak I'd suggest is Body 3, Logic 2, save the 10 Karma for more Skills or Positive Qualities or push Edge up to 3.

ShadowcatX

  • *
  • Omae
  • ***
  • Posts: 573
« Reply #10 on: (13:01:51/03-06-18) »
IIRC Adrenaline Boost doesn't stack with anything

Which isn't a problem because not much else gives a straight bonus to initiative, most things give a bonus to initiative dice and a bonus to reaction.

Quote
and Attribute Boost of 1 only gives you a max of +1 to your dice pools.  Any Background count at all and it's not going to do anything.

You are remembering wrong, attribute boost 1 means you roll magic + attribute boost and gain the hits to your stat. It's a very underrated power.

culannmac

  • *
  • Newb
  • *
  • Posts: 7
« Reply #11 on: (15:07:43/03-06-18) »
Thanks so much guys you've all been a great help!

culannmac

  • *
  • Newb
  • *
  • Posts: 7
« Reply #12 on: (16:01:42/03-06-18) »
Hey Tecumseh,

Umm I'm following your guide and somehow I've spent 65 karma.  :-\ Not sure what went wrong.

« Reply #13 on: (16:06:42/03-06-18) »
Hey Tecumseh,

Umm I'm following your guide and somehow I've spent 65 karma.  :-\ Not sure what went wrong.

Are you using Chummer?  Quite often I accidentally tick the Karma buy box instead of the Skill Point or Attribute point box instead, since they're right next to each other.  My first instinct would be to doublecheck you didn't accidentally spend karma on anything you should have spent priority points on...

culannmac

  • *
  • Newb
  • *
  • Posts: 7
« Reply #14 on: (17:20:06/03-06-18) »
I'm using Hero Lab.